The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: AlfromNH on September 27, 2013, 04:33:08 PM
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'79 R65. Steering head bearings, lower especially are shot:
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What's the easiest way to remove the outer race from the steering head?
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Looks like races aren't going to be good either.
Getting the bottom one off is a bit of a trick, there are some handy little tools for pulling the races out - I had a cheap bearing puller that I broke and haven't replaced so I haven't one to loan you.
time for you to learn about another valuable resource for airhead related TOOLS - Cycleworks. They have special tools for doing these sorts of jobs - I was going to buy some of these earlier this year (I didn't need them at the moment, but wanted to start collecting them in case I, or a fellow airhead in distress needed them in the future). But, business this year has been a bit off, and with reduced revenue and increased expenses, I've been buying less "toys"... anyhow, Cycleworks has what you need - here is a link to the full toolset for pulling & installing head bearings.
http://www.cycleworks.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29_33_50&products_id=64
They have lots of other useful stuff too - I'd recommend looking at their exhaust nut remover tool - you're gonna need that at some point (but DON"T TAKE THE EXHAUST NUTS OFF WITHOUT THE TOOL, and YOU have to be careful about the possibility that they've corroded onto the cylinder head threads and might need cutting off (hacksaw) to avoid galling and stripping the cylinder head threads-more on that later).
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To remove outer races.
Disconnect battery, and just to be on the safe side, also disconnect HEI type beancan if fitted to your bike and Ignition amplifier (if fitted) and any other electronics that you may have bestowed upon your bike.
Use an Arc welder to run a bead of weld around approximately a third to half of the race and then allow to cool - the bottom one will probably fall out, the top one you can use the bead of weld to "foot" a steel drift to pop the top race out (it usually requires very little effort).
There is a special tool you can buy for this job but it costs a fortune and doesn't work half the time and you end up using the welder anyway.
It remove the inner race from the triple clamps - use cold chisel to break cage, remove cage and all bearings - exposing the inner race.
If you have a dremel or similar, start carefully cutting the inner race at sufficient angle that you do not risk cutting into the steerer tube. Cut about 50% to 75% through and then a few taps with the cold chisel will generally expand the race sufficiently to allow it to come off, if not, turn triple clamps over and repeat 180 degrees from the original cut.
You can use a 3.5" grinder for this - go slowly and be careful, you will sometimes find that the grinder will heat the race up enough so that it falls off by itself..
You can also just use a cold chisel if you have a sharp one and you are able to pack the triple clamps up onto lumps of timber so that they are well supported, because trust me, having done them this way, even with a sharp cold chisel you are going to be whaling into that race, they are bloody hard.
To refit the lower race - visit metal recycler and find a nice lump of steel pipe that fits over the steerer tube and bears on the inner race (not the cage). Heat bearing on hotplate or in oven to about 250 degrees, drop onto steerer (after first fitting new "seal" if you have one, and then use lump of pipe to drive the inner race home onto its mount.
To refit the outer races, if you can find another lump of pipe closely matches the diameter of the race use it,I had to turn down a slightly larger lump of pipe. Please outer races in freezer for about 30 minutes and then gently tap them into position. (if you have access to liquid nitrogen you can fit these by hand alone (wearing gloves of course).
Actually, if you have a good eye, a steady hand, and are patient, you can simply use a flat headed punch and a small hammer and just go round and round at 90 degree intervals - takes a while, but if you are careful you will get them home without distorting them. The good eye part is is keeping track of which quarter needs the punch as the race will evenetually start to "cock over" and that must be corrected so as to keep the race as square as possible in the steering head bore prior to it seating onto its mount
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I have the head stock bearing removal and replacement tools from Dan at Cycleworks. Did the deed on my 1983 R65 and eliminated that notchy feeling in the steering. Proper tooling = no damage to the head stock or those new bearings... which, BTW, you can purchase locally at a bearing supply joint for less bucks than at a stealership.
Do you have an arc welder, Al? And enough experience to use it with out creating bigger problems? Feel like crawling around some junk yards in the cool NH fall weather looking for some pipe? What's the value of your time?
Sorry, Tony. I know you Outback lads down under are a self-sufficient lot and good on ya, Mate... But, AlfromNH is a noob and needs proper tooling which also comes will complete instructions.
$85.00 is a small price to pay considering that less than one hour of the hourly rate charges at BMW shops that just might consider working on an Airhead...or might not.
Buy the tooling from Dan, Al. You will not regret it and you might just get to assist some other Airhead in your neighborhood.
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I do know of folks who have used MIG welders to quickly pop out the races from the frame, but I don't have one - even though I was promised one after designing the control system for one - which is selling well, BTW. Oh well.
The pressfit bearing on the bottom of the triple tree is the worst one - even with the toolset, you may have to use some judiciously applied heat to help it off. Definitely warm up the new bearing on a hot plate or one of your wife's already scratched up skillets in the oven till it is ~250F and try to drive it into place straight and swift. If you are really in a bind, the guys, at secondwindbmw in Manchester may do that for you (for a price of course). As another source of airhead help, one of our Granite State BMW Rider members Jim Pidgeon (near MAnchester) works on airheads and will probably also help you with pulling bearings, mounting tires, etc. at his small motorcycle shop - you'll have to pay him too, of course. Call 668-5093 or e-mail housemanpidgeon @ comcast.net
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And don't forget item #13 - a grease cup. It usually gets messed up removing the lower bearing race. It's cheap - @ $3
Part # 31 42 1 234 509
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http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0363&mospid=51897&btnr=31_0296&hg=31&fg=42
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As a new BMW owner, you should also be aware that any BMW automobile dealership can order parts for you, if that is more convenient for you. Just supply the parts guy with the part numbers.
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Thanks for the input guys. I don't have a welder, so that's out. I may send Jim Pidgeon an email, altho to have it done by someone else would mean re-assemblng it enough to roll it on the trailer.
I suppose if I buy the tool I'll increase my chances of making friends in the airhead world 8-)
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Though he doesn't have a welder so it's out of the question for him, it really isn't any big deal to put weld on an outer bearing race. Weld goes on hot and also puts good local heat on the race... they shrink as they cool and pull the race in. No biggie, and you don't have to worry about ruining the headstock with spatter since the bearing race is covering the important bits.
One of the first repairs I ever did was replace the steering head bearings on my xs400 maxim. While I wouldn't want to do it that way again, I managed just fine with a drift and a hammer working on the sidewalk. Took plenty of time and I was speaking French by noon, but it wasn't exactly rocket surgery either.
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I drilled the frame, two holes either side (4/5mm) in the top and two in the bottom of the head stock at an angle to intersect with the bottom of the bearing. Then punch them out with a hammer and a long nose punch.
Before anyone starts wringing their hands, this method was recommended by Motobins, when they used to have a fault diagnosis section at the back of their catalogues. You won't go to hell and your bike won't fall apart. And you will be able to get the bearings out again easily in the unlikely event that you have to do it again.
The holes can be plugged with wax or a grommet.
Not everyone has a welder.
Rev. Light
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I drilled the frame, two holes either side (4/5mm) in the top and two in the bottom of the head stock at an angle to intersect with the bottom of the bearing. Then punch them out with a hammer and a long nose punch.
Interesting.
Funny thing is that I seriously thought of doing the same thing once, and would have if it had been my bike. The owner however did not accept my telling him that you could turn the steering head into a Swiss cheese and not fundamentally compromise its strength.
I had left my welding rods in a silly place and they got wet and I didn't feel like riding into town to get more.
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About a year ago I tried to order some parts throough the local BMW auto parts counter and was told they were directed by BMW HQs to no longer order motorcycle parts, to refer customers to the nearest BMW motorcycle dealer. For me that is about 200 miles away.
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OK, now you can order directly from BMW ( http://shop.bmw-classic.com/ )
And buy whatever you want and have the parts delivered free shipping to your door (provided you spend more than 75 € which is too easy...)
And, you have access to the stock and see if a part is actually available. So you can smile at the BMW dealership .....
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two 5mm holes at each end is hard Swiss cheese : )
There is a lot of metal 'there abouts'
However, I accept that this is going away from originality which is difficult for some.
Rev Light
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Danger Al, Danger! ::)
This excerpt just in from NHMike's newly published 4-page pamphlet, How To Keep Your Wife Happy Forever :
"...Warm up the new bearing on a hot plate or one of your wife's already scratched up skillets in the oven..."
[smiley=ROTFLMAO.gif] Besides setting off the smoke alarms throughout the house, the stink and taste of the scorched grease from the bearings will linger as a not so gentle reminder of your latest screw up.
Many years ago, I used the kitchen oven to heat up a not-so-clean hydraulic brake master cylinder off a car project. Oops! Same deal for me. Doghouse. And we are no longer married... but that's another Happy Hour story...
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LOL! I had assumed that this would be with a new, clean, degreased bearing - DEFINITELY do not put an oil or greased one in the oven in the house, or you will certainly add some stress to your marital relations!
:D
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two 5mm holes at each end is hard Swiss cheese : )
There is a lot of metal 'there abouts'
Rev Light
My frame is black, so holes like that would almost invisible.
Interesting...
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Hello !
The better way to heat a bearing is to have a pan, a litre of oil and a thermometer.
Heat the oil in the pan up to 145°C (stay a little below 150 °C) then immerse the bearing attached to a string of steel in order to get it back easily.
During that time prepare the axe and a pair of sturdy gloves.
Get the bearing out of the oil and put it in place. Normally it's as easy as spreading soft butter...
Some notes : We used this to exchange crankshaft bearings on two stroke engines. Heat the pan with something electric because hot oil gasses and naked flames are not good neighbour.... 150° is considered safe for the tempering of the steel. I once was told that above this you'll ruin the bearing. If you do this in the shop and if the oil has no sulphur in it, you'll keep the wife and your neighbour won't call the fire department...
I use an old pot my wife was throwing away. It was used to heat wax for her legs... Perfect and neat :D
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Buy the tool and follow the directions, the increase in your confidence and self esteem is worth the price [smiley=bmw_smiley.gif] You may find that several hundred miles down the road the bearings will have been fully seated by bumps in the road (Maine has many broken up roads to choose from) and that you will need to retighten the the large ring at the top of the upper fork clamp, at least that is my experience and Duane mentions this as well. D2
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bearing attached to a string of steel in order to get it back easily.
One of the best tool investments I ever made was a magnet on a stick. Great for fishing steel bits out of hot oil, pulling washers off of studs, and much, much more
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I've installed new bearings. I bought the cycleworks tool for removing the outer races:
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(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1350.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp763%2Facarey3%2FIMG_20131026_091300_197_zpsc224ddfa.jpg&hash=65955ac87cac218ccf0826d8471d543d8628cf95) (http://s1350.photobucket.com/user/acarey3/media/IMG_20131026_091300_197_zpsc224ddfa.jpg.html)
The top came out easily, the bottom took quite a bit of torque on the wrench. But the frame bosses looked good, all is well.
I didn't buy the tool for removing the lower inner race. Instead I used a Dremel to cut the cage and make a groove in the race, a couple taps with a hammer and chisel and she's free!
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I used the old races as a drift to tape the new ones in place
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A bit of a milestone, my first re-assembly on this bike!
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Question: I saw on the Motobins Tips page an article about electrical erosion on the stearing head races. These are my old races. Is that what I'm seeing on the upper race(the one on the right)?
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What you're seeing is bearing races that have been damaged by being either over or under tightened. The term is brinelled. Actual low spots that have been pounded into the races by the bearing rollers. Usually felt as a notchy steering when pushing the bike around the garage. Or, it could be false brinelling...
Proper preload is essential for long bearing life and smoother steering during ops. After you've completed the rebuils and a few miles have passed below th eoil pan, you will want to readdress and adjust the preload on those new bearings.
Brinelling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinelling
False brinelling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_brinelling
One of the first things I had to do with my freshly purchased '83 R65 was replace the steering bearing. Not too pretty...
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ouch, that one looks pretty bad!
I was talking about the vertical lines "ghosted" on the upper bearing tho. I can't feel them with a fingernail, I was wondering if they're electrically-caused.
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I was talking about the vertical lines "ghosted" on the upper bearing tho. I can't feel them with a fingernail, I was wondering if they're electrically-caused.
I know the motobins article you mention and the theory about electrical erosion. I also know who wrote those articles and it wasn't Motobins themselves but a guy called Mike Fishwick who was the Technical Officer of the BMW club. Mike is very knowledgable and experienced but on this one I've never been fully convinced or at least I would want to see it better explained. The idea that there is a fortuitous earth path through the bearings doesn't make obvious sense as there is already a perfectly good earth via the wiring harness. I have actually tested the earth between the forks and main frame while turning the bars and saw no change in the reading so I assumed the main earth path is fine. The possibility that it is the high voltage impulse to the Tacho that might have something to do with it does spound plausable as that pulse can be 250 Volts but I still don't understand why the forks aren't already earthed via the harness.