The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: daveschile on August 02, 2013, 05:08:54 PM
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I've got about 200 miles on my '82 that I bought a couple months ago. Just starting to get confident with her, pushing her up to 80 mph cruising, and I blow the right side spark plug. Nails my ankle, but stays in the wire. Spent a few minutes on the center divide of I-405 in busy Sothern California traffic. Good times.
I'm gonna try the Helicoil fix with the head still on the bike. Any suggestions or heckles?
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Heavy grease on the drill and the tap to collect as much swarf as possible. Small magnetic pick-up to probe the combustion chamber for additional junk. Light 'er up and blow out any leftovers. That's about all you can do.
I did this on a late 60's Bonneville and the engine ran forever. Luck to you.
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Thank you, Monte. I am also thinking on running the shop-vac as I cut and suctioning the port afterwards.
David
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A shop vac with some modified nozzle to really get the suction in there might not be a bad idea. With the alloy of the head, I am doubtful that a magnet will pick up everything. USe plenty of tacky grease and go slow!
Good luck!
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sorry wrong! the absolute BEST way to remove all swarf is to
1-stuff some tights into the cylinder (panty hose)
2-then push grease into the cylinder
3-helicoil
4-pull the nylons out by the time you've got the lot out you'll have pulled all the crap out (use a bent coat hanger)
5-job done
or! to do a proper job take the head off and time sert it ! ;)
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Oh, I can picture it all now in my head...
Wifey: Darling, Whose panty hose are these and how did that get all that nasty grease on them?
LDH: Oh that, Luv. Uh, I was just fettling the old Beemer a wee bit.
Wifey: Not my size! Now, where be me skillet? Your arse in mine...
;D
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If you get the cylinder going on a compression or power stroke you will keep the valves seated and the seats free from any stray swarf. Getting the piston as close to TDC as you can while still leaving room for the tap will minimize the chamber volume and probably make cleanup easier.
+1 on the nylons. After you remove them, get an air gun with a long wand and stick it down into the cylinder as far as you can and let it rip, moving it around the cylinder. With the valves seated the only way for things to leave is through the plug hole.
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Wear safety googles when air blasting metal bits. Don't need any problems bigger than the stripped threads.
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Thanks for the ideas. I had no spare panty hose, but I still like the idea. Anyway, all went fine. She's back on the road, running great.
In finishing that job, I noticed a valve cover leak on the same side that seems to be spitting exhaust gas. I wonder if the issues could be related?
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reason behind the nylons is you can get all of it out and it doest leave bits behind doesn't come apart and if you twist it on the way out it cleans the crap out of the threads , done it loads of times when i had the shop.
you mean the actual valve cover is pressurised enough to blow exhaust gasses ? sure its not the head/barrel joint?
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In finishing that job, I noticed a valve cover leak on the same side that seems to be spitting exhaust gas.I wonder if the issues could be related?
Crank case compression would pressurise the valve covers and could sound like an exhaust leak. It wouldn't be related to the spark plug threads but you should fix it as besides the noise it will be affecting the engine breather operation and maybe oil consumption.
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Yeah, it feels like its coming from the valve cover. Granted, it is near the fin-nut. But it really feels like the valve cover gasket.
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If it seems like exhaust gas is puffing out the valve cover, then it would seem to be a very worn valve guide(s) on that cylinder, and/or valves not seating tight. Maybe it is the head gasket? Or, sometimes one will get some steam escaping from the notch area of the valve cover directly under the spark plug lead due to moisture accumulating in there, and then getting evaporated out as the engine heats up - most common if you leave the bike out after a rainstorm or wash it with a hose.
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Im trying to understand this "stuffing panty hose into the cylinder" thing, in case I ever need to use it. First of all- WTH? :o Then, do you just stuff a whole leg in there, add grease, do the thread repair, then try and find a piece and pull it out with needle nose pliers? What if you cant grab any of it? And is the idea that it will pick up the swarf (another new term for me) with its nitting and grease?
I love little tricks like this. Unless its just a sick joke. Then Ive been had...
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i use some surgical forceps , the nylons compress really well , you can even rub a little grease into 'em too , the more you put in the cleaner the thread will be when its all out , i was shown using just cloth but that sheds and rips i've done it and recommend it if youre unwilling to take off the head, and on a bmw flat twin its much easier than a jap four!
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heres another one, when driving out a brake piston using air pressure (if you've not got a piston tool) put the caliper in a carrier bag, it saves tha embarrassment of asking your neighbours for it back!
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... I love little tricks like this. Unless its just a sick joke. Then Ive been had...
It's the real deal with the panty hose. Thongs just don't work as well. ;)
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tights are a godsend! you can make a temporary fan belt with 'em ! knew a girl at school who had terrible eczema , the only thing she could wear round her neck were tights , worn as a scarf to stop the itching , also make a good filter ! downside is the g/f doesn't wear 'em ! prefers to tan instead, loads of thongs , only thing they do is whale tail! lol
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if youre unwilling to take off the head, and on a bmw flat twin its much easier than a jap four!
That's the bit I don't get. Given that it take only a few minutes to pull the head off and a set of head gaskets is well under $20, if it were my bike and I had just bought it, I'd be pulling the heads off anyway to have a look at the valves and guides (dropped valves being a leading cause of premature airhead injury and/or death) and frankly I'd probably throw rings at it too given their low cost so that I was starting from a known base.
Helicoils are at best a temporary fix for a sparkplug, you will find that combustion products will inevitably migrate their way up the thread and sooner of later you will wind the coil out with the sparkplug. Not to mention that you have to clean break the installation tang once you wind the coil in and a clean break can only be guaranteed (on a genuine helicoil, not so with some other similar systems) by a "downwards" break which potentially leaves you with the problem of fishing for the tang with either a magnet or a wad of grease soaked rag on the end of a flexible rod.
With the head out you have two choices, mediated by your ability/willingness to spend money. (1) have the head welded up and a new Sparkplug hole and set made, or (2) have a hardened steel insert fitted - the type that ever use steel "tangs" to anchor them or the type that use a "crowded thread" to permanently lock them in place.
I have used Helicoils to repair sparkplug holes, but based on experience I can only regard it as a temporary fix.
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I agree with you Tony. Unfortunately, I'm in the process of an RV rebuild and overwhelming 'real' job work, and blah blah, just no time. I did the helicoil in 10 minutes and she's good to go.
I've got a bunch of stuff to do on this bike to get to base-line since its new to me. So all the chores add up, heads, rings and valve guides are on page 2. Spline lube is this weekend.
By the way, the 'Sav-A-Thread' kit by helicoil (made for spark plugs) doesn't use that break away tang. After seating it, you give it a wack with this mandrel-punch thingy that comes with the kit. Apparently the knurled parts of the outer helicoil dig into the aluminum and it stays in place.
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and if youre going to take off one you may as well do both ! just because someone over tightened a spark plug!
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Good call, Dave.[smiley=thumbup.gif] Fixed your tractor the Airhead way.
You just might be a good candidate for the Airhead Beemer Club.
Monte
ABC #12411
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these? http://www.helicoil.com.sg/HeliCoil-Thread-Repair-Kits.shtml
these look like a permanent repair! excellent! :)
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or these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BGS-Tools-Spark-Plug-Thread-Repair-Kit-M12x1-25mm-166-/380643650333?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item58a0212b1d
german made too!
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Good call, Dave. Fixed your tractor the Airhead way.
Yep. Worst that would probably happen is he blows the heli-coil out too... if it ever does. If that were the case a good welding shop could probably have it right for a decent price, or he could pick up a used head.
But not to worry, she'll be right mate
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Absolutely! There's a tech day in Orange County on the 24th and I plan to sign up and get my number. [smiley=thumbup.gif]