The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Luca on July 05, 2013, 05:57:58 PM
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Hi all,
I've got my speedometer apart to fix the odo/trip meter. There is a whole lot of corrosion in there since there is no rubber boot on the reset button (never realized it should have one).
Anywho, It looks like what's left of the bottom of the boot is sandwiched between the front of the gauge lens and the black threaded guide tube. Is that the case? If so, I'll order a boot right away so I can get the gauge back together.
Also, one of the small screws that holds on the gauge face was totally stuck. I was able to get it out with pliers and some help from the freezer. Anybody know what size these screws are, or if they're available?
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No parts are available, unless you have a 'donor' speedometer to rob parts from .
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Siebenrock makes a replacement boot (they've got it on BMW2valve.com).
Hendersen Precision has a button retainer... but it's shown with the button too. Not sure if thats just for illustration.
The screw should be replaceable with a non OEM part if I can figure the size out.
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For really tiny nuts, bolts n' screws, stop by any well stocked model train shop.
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Suggest contacting Terry aka Wirespokes - he's our resident expert on instrument repairs. He's done 2 for me
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For really tiny nuts, bolts n' screws, stop by any well stocked model train shop.
Great tip! I'll give that a shot. The face screws are threaded into metal, so I hope the hobby world stocks metric. If not I might have to bring the bugger to my machinist-brother. If the trip meter shaft is as crusty as it seems I might ask him to turn one out of stainless while I'm at it.
On a positive note, it's nice that the Motometer gauge is serviceable. I had the speedo apart on a Honda a few weeks ago and the whole thing is a contraption of peened together plates.
One last question. What's the best way to clean the lens and gauge face? I was thinking warm water with a mild detergent and blow drying.
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Hummm
I would avoid water.
This paint has suffered bad days, being on hot sun behind a glass and cold periods, down to freezing..
You risk water remove the non well sticking paint.
I'll wipe it delicately using a gentle brush and let it like that.
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Metric screws are readily available down to 1.6mm.
Beats me why they put a reset button on the top. Mine is underneath out of the weather.
Is that a an early vs late model thing or is it market dependent ?
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Beats me why they put a reset button on the top. Mine is underneath out of the weather.
Could be they changed the gauges for the 81 up bikes. the LS has no access to the gauge other than the face because of the fairing, so they needed a face reset for that.
I'll give the hobby and hardware stores a shot.
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Is that a an early vs late model thing or is it market dependent ?
Just took a look at Bob's BMW and they say their reset button and collar are good for 79-84 R65s. No mention of the R45. Or maybe your bike was part of an empty parts bin policy.
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Could be they changed the gauges for the 81 up bikes.the LS has no access to the gauge other than the face because of the fairing, so they needed a face reset for that.
That may well be the reason. I checked through over half a dozen R45 and R65 brochures, period road tests and riders handbooks that had close up pics of the instruments. The reset button was only every shown on the post 81 models.
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The reset out the front began in 81 with the G/S and R65. The GS also wasn't accessible from the back side.
I find that simple green or dish soap works well on lenses. If there's still spotting, try some polishing compound, then wash again. Another thing that works is vinegar and newspaper.
Be careful of the reset button, it's in two parts that thread together. Not sure why you'd want to make it out of stainless unless it's broken. Even then I've made them out of aluminum rod threaded for a stud. Make it the same length or the button will keep it depressed and the trip meter won't work!
That's a good idea on screws from the hobby shop! The right size screw driver helps a lot, but sometimes they can be a struggle. I think the previous tech used loctite. Normally they're not that tough to remove.
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Words from the master! Most appreciative.
I don't mean to have my brother machine a reset button, I mean the steel shaft with the peened ends that hold the intermediate gears on the trip meter. The whole thing is rusted together with the trip meter stuck "open."
Stopped at a hobby shop today and got a face screw (not sure if it will fit), the lower screws for the trip meter (look a bit oversized), and a spring for the reset button. Will let everyone know how it goes.
And P.S. The face screw certainly had loctite, but I think the problem was the amount of moisture that had been in the gauge. It was bad enough that rust had crept onto the gauge face, though not from the face itself.
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Ok, I'm tracking with you now. It shouldn't be difficult finding some rod the same diameter or close.
Soak the trip meter in Vinegar for a couple days. I'd be cautious about removing the number wheels over rust pits. See if you can dissolve the rust first.
You know, there are places on the net that will sell stainless rod in different sizes. Get some of that and I'll take what you don't need. Maybe I'll check into that tonight. Stainless would be the way to go!
I've run into the loctite before - someone sure wasn't considering the poor boob who'd work on it next! ::)
I put a dab of paint on the end of the screw if I can get to it, otherwise I'll get everything lined up with one screw fastened down, then drip a tiny dab of touch up paint on the threads. Install the screw, remove the first one and repeat. That's enough to prevent it loosening.
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Luca: a quick question...
about that boot they have at http://www.bmw2valve.com/motorcycle/B-9/6212303.html
Does it only covers the external part os the reset button (like a hat) or do I have to disemble the gauge in order to install it?
I want to buy it, because mine is missing, and I want to avoid water coming inside it...
Thanks!!
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fbenach, rom what I can gather, the boot goes over the button, but is sandwiched between the plastic collar and the glass. This means that you need to remove the bezel (I ground a paint can opened down a bit and gently pried away) and glass, but no further gauge disassembly is required other than removing the nut from the back of the collar to get the new boot under it.
I think Bobs BMW and Hendersen Precision have the plastic collar incase that breaks.
wirespokes, thanks for the idea about the vinegar. I was worried about damaging plastics, but vinegar should work just fine. If I go with stainless, I'd probably ask my brother to just grab a couple chunks of stock from the scrap bin at his job. I should at least be able to get you the dimensions so you could search the internet or take it to a machinist. Who knows, maybe my brother can make you a batch.
Ill keep you posted. Got distracted today by somebody's new-to-him SV650S. I've started playing mechanic.
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I've managed to replace the reset cover without removing the lens. Did it from the outside. But I wouldn't guarantee it will work. You'll need to unscrew the collar a ways to enable replacing the cover, and then screwing it back down. Not exactly easy or guaranteed to work when the retaining nut is on the inside. :D
The reset cover actually extends down into the hole.
If the retainer/collar is damaged, replace it! They tend to break, at which point the cover takes a hike. Metal retainers are preferable.
I think it was in the late 80s the lenses changed to plastic. Is that what you're talking about? I wouldn't think an R65 would have a plastic lens.
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No, I meant the plastic wheels. I was gonne try some penetrating oil on the shafts, but wasn't sure about how it would work in the long run.
I thought the collar was plastic too. Didn't really check though.
Quite happy that my lens is made of glass [smiley=bmw_smiley.gif]
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The collars are plastic from the factory. Check it to make sure the flange isn't dished. If it is, replace it!
What about the plastic gears? You're speaking about the white helical ones on the input shaft - the ones that convert the angular input to the speedo head?
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Thanks Luca and Wirespokes, sounds pretty simple, I´ll give it a try!!
I think my lens is plastic actually, I should check on that...
Take care!!
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I meant the plastic intermediate gears on the trip meter. The ones that roll the next (greater) digit over every time the lower digit reaches 10 (0 again).
It seems that there are several problems with my trip/odo meter at the same time. The plastic spacer on the odo has slipped on the shaft, letting everything wiggle freely. Only damage was some minor galling of the teeth on the odometer intermediate gears. I've filed em a bit and that seems to have smoothed things out. Perhaps I'll give it a bit more before final assembly. Instead of gluing the spacer back in place, I plan on either knurling the shaft to hold the spacer or shimming it with small e-clips. It can spin freely as long as it keeps the gears sandwiched together. I don't trust super glue anyways. Did the knurling trick on my old Mercedes Diesel odo and it worked great.
Additionally, the corrosion on the trip meter shaft froze the intermediate gears (not wheels). Because the trip meter and odo are mechanically linked, this seizure caused the worm gears driving the whole thing to start spinning on their shafts.
The corrosion also ate apart the trip meter reset button spring and crudded up some other metal bits in the bottom of the gauge.
Sorry if my terminology is poor. I plan to put together some sort of article showing the guts and how they work as I re-assemble the gauge. Working on getting a new trip meter intermediate gear shaft. Won't be able to turn things on the lathe. Got an assorted package of "musical wire" from the big box hardware store. If that doesn't work I'll probly have to go with the internet or an industrial supplier (msc, granger, etc.) Seems that the rods are 1.5 and 2mm, but I took pretty rough measurements. I'll confirm what works when I find it.
Also, thanks for the suggestion on the reset button collar. Mine is slightly dished. Ended up getting the parts from Bobs BMW as they sell the boot and collar together. Vinegar was also very helpful in removing rust. I did use penetrating oil on the metal shafts because it was necessary. Plastic seems fine.
Thanks again.
Hope to have a conclusion soon.
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That's what happens when the reset cover goes bad and lets water inside. Not pretty!
I used to knurl the shaft where the odo gear slipped. Usually that worked, but a few times it didn't. Some guys have JBWelded the gear to the shaft, and some of those have slipped. I pin that gear to the shaft which handles that problem terminatedly.
Vinegar is great stuff, huh? I use it all the time for derusting things.
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I plan to have a full report for everyone here, but for now here is a brief moment of good news.
I've got the meter back together. Gel pen provided the new reset button spring. Got plain steel rod from the hobby shop. SS was too hard to find, and very expensive from the big industrial suppliers. Might be able to get it as RC car or plane parts... but when in a rush you do what you can.
Rather than peen the rods over at the end, I just cut them long. The trip intermediate gear shaft is held captive by the trip meter housing, so it can't fall out. I cut the intermediate gear holder/reset finger thingy (I'LL HAVE PICTURES!) shaft at 3 inches and the trip meter number wheel shaft at about 3 1/2 inches. Once installed in the meter housing, those shafts can't slip out at that length because they would hit the walls of the housing... and no hammers got anywhere near my sensitive instrument. I gently rounded the ends of the shafts on the bench grinder.
I used 5/32 (3.9mm) e clips to shim the odometer spacer wheel. Everything moves freely, but the gears can no longer disengage. I like the pinning idea, but this way I didn't have to remove the thing and do delicate drilling.
My $2700 HP paperweight (3 year lifespan laptop... but that belongs in "rants and raves") provided me with the properly threaded metric screws. They're silver philips with a sort of flat topped pan head... Only an airhead would notice, and it's kind of fun leaving a subtle change like that.
Vinegar was safe to clean the gauge face with. You get a small inconspicuous area to test cleaners around the hole for the speedo needle shaft.
Bench tested the speedo with a cordless drill on a fresh battery. Corded would work, but not a drill press since the speedo cable rotates counter-clockwise. Seems to be pretty darn close 1.05 miles at 62.5mph for one minute. Almost seems better than the cautionary stock calibration I've heard about.
Now if I can just remember which rubber seal goes where on the glass and bezel I can have this thing stuck back together tomorrow morning...
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I don't have a neat way of crimping the odometer shafts either. I leave one end mashed(don't change that), and put a blob of solder on the other end once it's all together. Quick and easy, and easy to remove if I have to get back in there.
Spacing the odometer gears doesn't keep the main culprit from slipping on the shaft. That's the primary problem that needs to be taken care of.
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The metal wheel on the right end of my odometer that drives the odo and trip meters was fine... no slippage. The problem was that the number wheels could move left to right along the shaft, and as they did they could disengage the intermediate gears and do whatever they pleased. Guffed up one of the intermediate gears in the process. Shimming between the spacer wheel and metal housing remedied the problem.
I like the solder idea, but since I used new shafts, I just cut them long enough that it would be impossible for them to slip out. Less work and more reliable IMO (though the BMW metal is probably of better quality)
I's all back together and been good for 200 miles, including some exposure to heavy rain. I've got some pics and started putting a little article together... just haven't had the time to get it done and post.
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There's a reason you had all sorts of play between the number wheels and it's not because it came that way from the factory. It's because that pot metal gear slid to the side.
Shimming the shaft will prevent the number wheels going out of registration, but then again, watch for the time you go on a 200 mile ride and only register fifty. If it slipped before, it will again! All of them do sooner or later.