The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: steven m on June 28, 2013, 04:09:40 PM
-
My turn signals stopped working this morning. When I first turned the ignition switch on the right signal was on, due to of course the tank bag hitting the switch. Returned turn signal switch to the off position, started the bike, no turn signals. At all. Since it is both signals, is this likely a relay, or the switch? Or, is there a fuse? If it is the relay, which one? Was planning on riding this weekend and not taking the bike apart...
Thanks
Steve
-
Hi Steven-
It *could* be a fuse, or a possibly the flasher relay. Once of the fuses, if blown, will take out your turn signals and brake light. I cannot recall offhand which fuse it is, but there are only (2), and they are next to each other, clamped onto the frame backbone benath the back end of the fuel tank and in front of the underseat toolbox - assuming that your bike is still in its standard factory configuration.
I don't know what model year bike you have - the relay locations are slightly different over the years.
All the relays are beneath the fuel tank plugged into a metal shelf - the flasher relay will be either a (3) or (4) terminal relay with terminal numbers 31, 49, 49a (and optionally a (C) terminal as well) written on the outside.
Depending upon the model year, the
-
Thanks NHMAF. Turn signals AND brake light are out, so I guess it is either the fuse or the relay. All other lights function and bike starts right up. Of course now I am wondering what would cause the fuse to blow. Relays wear out eventually, I suppose. My bike is an 83 in standard configuration. I'll pull the tank in the morning...
Steve
-
Sure enough, a blown fuse, 8 amp, the upper fuse in the box. removed and cleaned blades on relay. Never had a blown fuse on the bike before. Off to the store...
-
Okay, went and purchased 8amp ceramic fuses and while I was at it decided to pick up a new relay. The original is now 30 years old. Found one at a VW parts shop in Hawthorne, as it is a very common relay for older European cars. Hella not available, picked up a Flosser (with an umlaut over the o), flasher relay, part number 111-953-227D. Put the old relay back in with a new fuse and it blew right away, new fuse with new relay, everything works fine. Cost of the relay, with tax, $9.40, add two fuses, total cost less than $10.00. My kind of repair...
Steve
-
Photos should be pretty self-explanatory.
The OEM Euro-style ceramic fuses provide poor contact with the spring blades inside the R65's fuse box. I have previously cleaned and buffed both fuses and holders clips and still had electrical problems.
No further issues since doing the upgrade.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOrigFuseLocation.jpg&hash=c75e5d481e5e0849c3149bfa50c17a89e7b831ad)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FNAPA784667.jpg&hash=f0ba12e62caf6bac3017fe4d60c58b0c20b429fc)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FFusesTopView.jpg&hash=9fb1700efdbca9cfcd2b3b2dab40f46f2eebabfc)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FAdelClamp01.jpg&hash=b0700ab281f881c279ded811d8f22136035bba57)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FAdelClamp02.jpg&hash=5ecfeed1971fcbff4247dfd66a3984c2972464b3)
-
Thanks Monte. I remember reading your post on this some time ago, but I have never had any electrical problems that weren't of my own making. What sort of electrical problems have you had? There's not a lot to our bikes.
Upgrading to modern blade fuses in a waterproof case makes a lot of sense. I guess that's next on the list. Meanwhile, I'm going to ride this evening when the temperature drops down to the high 70's...
Steve
-
I know that I swapped over to the SAE miniblade fuses shortly after the annual safety inspection on my R65LS several years ago. I made sure that everything was working properly and went to get the inspection. It passed, I got my annual sticker. Then, while pulling out of the garage that issued the sticker, I happened to notice my brake light wasn't working, and my turn signals didn't work. I rode on to a parking lot 1/4 mile away, gave the fuses a spin or two in their holders (Despite having cleaned the whole thing the previous day) and all was working again. I don't need that sort of aggravation, especially as it can be a safety issue - it is bad enough trying to get cage drivers to see you, much less have you stop but without working stop light. Grrr.
-
So I took the bike out and about a mile from home the turn signals and brake light stopped working so I turned around and went home. Had someplace to be and took my car. Upon returning home, a few minutes ago, I swapped in a new fuse to try and isolate the issue. Handlebars to the left, to the right, front brake, back brake, and all combinations. Still working and I'm scratching my head. In the morning I'll try it with the engine running, although I'm not sure why that would change things unless the voltage regulator is shot and it is drawing too much power, but then wouldn't the headlight blow as well? Looks like that fuse upgrade is going to be sooner than later. Very irritating...
-
Started bike, ran test again- handlebar position, turn signals with and without brake lights, still working. I have to find a NAPA store open today...
-
I'm going down to pick up the mini blade modern fuse holders. A big question: Are you are cutting of the wires before the blade connector, and if so, using crimp connectors with heat shrink wrap, how are you dealing with multiple wires? Would a spade.blade connector to the new fuse holder work?
Thanks
Steve
-
You could crimp on matching male/female connectors to the wires' ends if you like, but generally, each splice/crimp/connection in a wire is an opportunity for a failure, and I don't like potential failures of the sort that these circuits could create. So, I just stripped the ends and used butt-splice crimp connectors with overal heatshrink. But if you wanted to the possible option of reverting back to the old way, you could sue the appropriate space/receptacle setup with the wires - I'd still recommend the overall heatshrink to keep out water and corrosion though
-
I'm going to install this on my '81 R65, but after getting it, I found out I need a switched power source to feed this fuse block .
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx361%2F128as0050404%2FPicture030_zpsf958de12.jpg&hash=2855cacf1e5325ae0142778e92466ad427d60562) (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/128as0050404/media/Picture030_zpsf958de12.jpg.html)
When I finally figure out how to install a relay for this, I'll install it under the left side cover .
-
Installation complete. I purchased waterproof male blade connectors with built in shrink wrap. Stripped the wire, inserted into the blade connector, crimped it, and then heated the shrink wrap. Pretty tidy. And an easy job that would have been easier if it wasn't 97 degrees AND humid. I usually am intimidated by electrical work but this was a breeze. The old fuse box is held in place by a hose clamp so it was an easy removal. Zip tie in the same location holds the wiring and fuse boxes are next to left side cover. Now if they blow...
Thanks for all the info guys.
Steve
-
Well, the fuse blew again. Last night I cleaned both brake light switches. All was well. Rode to the office. No problem. On the way home, out go the turn signals... Not happy.
-
There is an intermittent short in there that is going to require some patient investigation to find, unfortunately.
-
There is an intermittent short in there that is going to require some patient investigation to find, unfortunately.
First place I would look is inside each turn signal housing. The brown ground wires are a no-brainer so the main focus would be on the wires brining power to the bulb sockets.
Mike Bengt Phorqs Crenshaw and I had completed an R90 fairing install and began testing electrics. Pop! Turn signal fuse blew... and the R90 has fuses deep in the headlight bucket. Replaced fuse. Pop!
Long story short, ol' Phorqs had pinched a power wire while re-fitting the left/front turn signal housing. So, your mention of "turning handlebars" leads me to think there's a pinched wire up front.
-
Monte, I think you may be correct, since I have replaced the fuses and the relay. What's left? Yesterday the fuse blew after I had made a left turn, in traffic, and had not returned the switch to center, as we all have at one time or another. Noticed the switch was still to the left but no flashing lights from turn signal indicator lamps in instrument panel cover. Could be the wiring to the indicators. Maybe the wiring to the instrument panel lamps? If the fuse blew immediately it would of course be easier to trace. I have not been able to trigger it, which is irritating. On the other hand, I now know what the problem isn't...
-
Victory in Rock City! Pulled left turn signal off and long buried wire had rubbed insulation off and was shorting against metal tube. Since turn signal draw is light, it probably took a little while to build up enough juice to blow the fuse, so the signal worked when used for short duration.
I can't believe it, I actually solved an intermittent electrical problem, with help from Monte, of course.
Here are some photos of the problem and the expensive fix.
Thanks all. That'll be me on PCH this weekend with the big smile.
Steve
-
That's one gnarly looking turn signal stalk. No wonder the wire insulation wore through.
Some time spent with a small file would be a nice preventive measure. Di'ja check both sides, front and rear?
-
The stalk itself is straight, undamaged, and clean. I have wrapped the end with electrical tape to prevent the turn signal housing from drooping when clamped down and THAT is what looks funky. Where the insulation wore through was not at the end or by the notch but further inside the stalk, revealed only when the wires were pulled out, or I think I would have noticed it before. Ironically, the front left turn signal is the only one that has ever come loose. I guess I should check all of them...