The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Dshutt on June 12, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
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I have just completed successful replacement of my original 79 R65 center stand with a new one from BMW. It was fairly painless and I thought I would share my solutions to the few problems I encountered. I purchased a new stand from Germany through Blue Moon (nice guys) as I could not find one in the US and did not want to fool with someone else's bent used part. It is BMW part number 46522301594 and cost $214.26 plus shipping.
As you likely know if you are reading this, the current part is not exactly the same as the original regardless of what is shown in the parts book. The differences are:
- The "antler horn" for deploying the stand on the old part has been changed to a piece of heavy sheet steel bent in a semicircle with a tap on the end. It is obviously meant to fit around the exhaust (which it almost does) with the tab for kicking it down.
- The left side of the stand now has a serrated foot pedal on the end of the tube to assist you in getting the bike on the stand. The right side of the stand is identical to the old part.
- There are welded hoops for the spring attachments rather than the hooks on the old part.
The bushing and countersunk headed screws from my old bracket fit perfectly. I replaced them with new ones ($3.75 a set for each side) with parts from Motobins I had purchased in case there was a problem. Mounting (as opposed to fitting the springs and stop) was no problem at all. Old stand off, new stand on, tighten up nuts and you are done. Mine fit perfectly with no side play whatever.
The semicircular foot tab on the new stand is not exactly at the same angle as the exhaust. Further, as many have noted, there is now no stop for the stand it's upward motion ceasing when the foot tab touches the exhaust. After some scrounging around the shop I came up with an inelegant but perfectly serviceable solution. I used a one inch wide piece of 1 1/4" aluminum channel 1/8" thick and a stainless hose clamp. Clamp the channel to the frame tube near the left side riders foot rest. You can slide it up and down the frame tube to adjust exactly where the stand will stop. The flat of the channel touches the serrated part of the stand as if it were made just for that purpose. The channel is inside the frame and all that shows is the hose clamp on the frame. You could paint it black to disguise it but I did not.
I happened to have the channel laying around from another project. It is available on line by the foot from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty (they are nice folks too), p/n 03-39150. It runs about $4 a foot plus shipping. It is very stiff and will certainly not deform from being hit by the stand. I glued a small piece of self adhesive rubber to the surface that contacts the stand though I do not think it is really necessary.
Finally, the old springs will not fit as they are too long. You can easily replace them from the hardware store parts section. Just be sure and measure the required length with the stand in the stowed position. You will discover that you need extension springs that are 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" in length depending on their stiffness.
The new stand is SO nice. I could not get the bike off the old one without a crane. Upon removal I discovered it had been repaired (poorly) and was out of square. The bike goes on the new stand with a relatively gentle tug. It sits on the stand and the rear tire with the front tire about 1/2" off the ground. I have no idea if this is "correct" or not but it certainly works well. I can now easily get the bike off the stand while mounted by just tipping it forward and pushing off with my toes. You can have the stand stop further over center (and hence have the front tire touch down) if you wish by grinding the edge of the stand at the pivot where it hits the frame stop. I did not see any reason to do this as I am happy with how the stand fits as it is.
I hope the above info is of help to someone else in completing this job. Note that deformation of the stand is not easy to detect while it is mounted on the bike. It only takes a small amount of distortion to make it totally unusable. I do not know how you could be sure a used part you could not compare to a new stand was going to work properly on your machine.
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Have you seen a picture of the center stand stop on the '82 and newer bikes ?
It's a piece of angle iron welded to the frame, with a rubber bumper stop that contacts the center stand when it's retracted .
I installed the newer style on my '81 R65 about 2 years ago, which had a center stand similar to your old one, the new stand is so much easier to use !!!!!
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Interesting topic. Just came to the site to see if anyone else was having as much trouble getting their bike off the center stand as I am having. Details:
bike: 1984 R65
me: 120 lbs, 5'1.5"
So far this year I have dropped the bike once (to the right) when attempting to get it off the stand (and yes, I picked it up by myself - full tank of gas and all - then went on to run in a 5 mile trail race ;->).
Today I was unable to get it off the stand at all. Tried to ride it off, which has worked in the past, and due to having parked with back tire in soft gravel (not by intention), was unable to do so. Bike was too close to my car to pivot it and try to ride off in another direction.
My husband (who owns a R75/6) says my bike is much harder to get off the center stand then his. He often gets it off the stand for me in the morning (taller + more body mass = better leverage and an easier time then I have) so it has been awhile since I have tried it solo.
Should we get this thing up on the lift and take a look at the center stand to see if there is some deformation or is this standard for this bike? Any tips for making it easier to move it off the stand?
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Have you seen a picture of the center stand stop on the '82 and newer bikes ?
Like this, Bob?
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F143451998%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=f3c6dc97dd815bf1bc777e9286aaa8cda600f461) (http://www.pbase.com/tomfarr/image/143451998/large)
click for larger
That bumper, BTW, looks a lot like the pads that are fit to the seat pan for the seat to rest against the subframe rails.
There are three different thicknesses - 5, 10 & 15mm height (thickness). I'm sure a 10 or 15 would work. If you want one of each, I have them in front of me (new). Give me your address in a PM and I will send you a couple, gratis.
Even if you don't want them, you owe the forum a picture or two!
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That be it !!!!!
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Interesting topic. Just came to the site to see if anyone else was having as much trouble getting their bike off the center stand as I am having. Details:
bike: 1984 R65
me: 120 lbs, 5'1.5"
So far this year I have dropped the bike once (to the right) when attempting to get it off the stand (and yes, I picked it up by myself - full tank of gas and all - then went on to run in a 5 mile trail race ;->).
Today I was unable to get it off the stand at all. Tried to ride it off, which has worked in the past, and due to having parked with back tire in soft gravel (not by intention), was unable to do so. Bike was too close to my car to pivot it and try to ride off in another direction.
My husband (who owns a R75/6) says my bike is much harder to get off the center stand then his. He often gets it off the stand for me in the morning (taller + more body mass = better leverage and an easier time then I have) so it has been awhile since I have tried it solo.
Should we get this thing up on the lift and take a look at the center stand to see if there is some deformation or is this standard for this bike? Any tips for making it easier to move it off the stand?
The surface of the center stand that contacts the frame gets worn down making an already bad design even worse .
A common fix it to apply a welding bead to the worn surface of he center stand, then file it smooth .
But personally, if you can do it, get the later center stand, I've had my '81 R65 31 years now, if I knew what a difference it made, I would have put on on back in '82 !!!!!!
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I have a later - type stand for sale. It is used, but it should be an improvement over what you have, wildknits.
I need to get it off of my bike for pictures.
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Thanks All!!
We were just discussing getting the bike up in the air to take a look at the center stand. Have friends that are welders, so that may be a "quick" fix.
Rob, I would be interested in pictures.
I suppose another option would be to work on my upper body strength so I can muscle the bike around better ;)
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Wildknits says her bike is an '84 so it already has a 'later' type stand so I would guess that it has worn as Bob said and the fix is easy, just get the stops built up again as Bob said.
When these get worn the bike goes too far back on the stand meaning that it has to come forward and UP to get it off the stand.
When repaired you should find the whole process much less painfull (in fact almost easy).
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The new stand is SO nice.I could not get the bike off the old one without a crane.
Wonderful description !
I suspect with typical German caution new bikes would have sat on the back wheel. After being repaired though mine also sits gently on the front wheel. It's a fine balance and on an upward facing slope it might sit on the back. It's obviously less stable on the stand than when it used to go way too far over centre so I tend to avoid facing the bike down hill if possible. I deliberately erred on the side of less stable just in case there was some initial settling in. After several years that hasn't happened to any great extent so the stand should now have a long life. Once they go too far over centre they become more highly stressed and wear rapidly. I'm happy with it as it is and find it so much easier to use not just taking it off but also putting it on the stand when you don't have that stress inducing drop when it goes over centre. Another plus is when washing the bike it's nice and easy to lift one end to rotate the wheels.
Wildknits - If the stand is badly worn repairing it will make a huge difference. Probably the best thing I've ever done to my bike and only wish I'd done it earlier.
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Hearing much more incentive to get this bike back to the airport ("hanger" it in my husbands shop as no garage at home) and on the lift for a look.
Thanks for all the help! I am looking forward to a fix and being able to move this bike a bit easier on my own!
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When you build up the stand with a welding bead, how much material should be there, 3-4 mm ?
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Adding more material to the stop is a guessing game. When I've done it, I've often had to grind down quite a bit. And it depends how much has worn away. Also, I've heard that it's the frame and not that stand that wears, but I had always added metal to the stand.
I left the welds on my 84 R100 a bit too proud and it barely wanted to stay on the stand. At first I even ran a strap to the stand to prevent it retracting on its own - not taking any chances! But I knew after using a while it would pound down a bit, which it has done and is about right now.
I'm pretty careful when using the center stand - putting it up gently (slowly) so it doesn't pound against the stops. That can be a little difficult, since it's easier to get it rolling quickly to have some inertia to carry it up onto it.
Also, I'd caution against riding the bike off the stand! The screws (or bolts) retaining the stand can come loose and the mounts in the frame become damaged. It's not a simple task to repair. The extra weight of a rider when deploying the stand can be enough to work them loose, or grind into them making them sloppy. Go as gently as you can on these things!
And you DO want the wheels off the ground when on the stand! That's necessary to removing a wheel.
One other thing - I've had my larger bikes try to get away from me when getting them off the stand, so any more I leave the bike in gear when parked. That way when it comes down off the stand, it can't possibly roll away. It stops right now! Usually it's a problem on uneven surfaces and the bike wants to fall away from me. Since doing this I no longer have close calls.
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Unless they are very worn and mine weren't I would not add weld to the frame stops as it will not be very easy to clean up and paint afterwards.
For building up the stand tips 3-4mm sounds about right depending how neat the welding is. I added at least 6mm (not very neatly) to the stand and spent more time than I should have with the angle grinder. Looking at how the stand tips mate up with the frame stops it will be obvious that the weld should be added in a tapered fashion with 3 - 4mm at the top edge tapering down to nothing at the bottom edge which doesn't even contact the stops. That will also save time on the clean up. Depending on how well the stand aligns with the frame stops it may be beneficial to thicken up the stand tips to increase the contact area. Mine is thickened up on both sides but probably only really needed on the inside.
(http://)(http://)
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Barry, thanks for the photos.
Much to ponder from all of the posts.....
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Brought the bike down to the hanger today (been very wet of late) and took a quick look at the center stand. Here is my attempt at photos of the area:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111191305588176779095/R65CenterStand?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPXRspSch52FAg&feat=directlink
Thoughts? Better pictures needed?
edit - fixed link
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I couldn't get to the pix.
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Hmmmm - all of my attempts to post pictures are going awry....
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fXkOtA2hOtc/T9vOZ3sdzYI/AAAAAAAAG9U/kxqUc2wn9So/s640/IMG_4961.JPG)
edit - replacing huge files with smaller from Picasa
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Until now!!! Sheesh!
View of center stand from left side. Angle seems about the same as that on my husbands R75/6.
Below - my "blind" attempt at photographing the bits that may be the problem:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-71JNyf8zkMg/T9vOd1BVmGI/AAAAAAAAG9k/ZocNWhsOPvs/s512/IMG_4969.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PIXMgQwvwXo/T9vOZ6ytG0I/AAAAAAAAG9Y/QMxvWw87h8w/s640/IMG_4970.JPG)
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I cant't really tell from your pictures what the angle of your stand is. I would try one from further back. When I was thinking about repairing my stand I collected a couple of photos to get a feel for what the correct angle should be. These are not of my bike just something I found on the net and although an Airhead the bike isn't an R65 but I doubt that makes any difference to judging the angle.
I would say the worn stand is as badly worn as they get and would be a real pig to use. Mine wasn't quite that bad and I still got huge improvement from doing the repair.
The repaired stand looks a touch vertical and unstable to me. When I compare that photo with my repaired stand the angle is not quite so steep. If it wasn't raining I'd wheel it out of the garage and take a picture for you.
(http://)(http://)
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I'm afraid your pictures still don't show us what stand you have, wildknits.
(I fixed your link and made your pictures smaller...)
Here is a picture of my replacement stand (original, been repaired lying to the left), with a link to a few more:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F144095719%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=f943d0f29cbf6e92ecd9653a1447e411e19ac43f)
http://www.pbase.com/tomfarr/center_stand
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Thanks for fixing the link! And resizing the photos. For some reason it just wasn't working well for me that day.
I was afraid the photos weren't specific enough. Next time I head to the hanger (marathon in town today blocking access to Park Point - where the airport is) I will try for better pictures. Maybe get out the inspection mirror to help.
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Will be a delay getting better photos. Much flooding and damage due to heavy rains in the past 48 hours (10 inches in 24 hours in my neighborhood). While I have seen some folks on the roads with their motorbikes, mine will stay hangared until all of the gravel, rocks and small boulders are cleared off the road. In addition much buckling and collapsing of roadways = some of the best roads to ride are closed down for an unknown length of time.
Water running downhill has amazing power! :o
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I saw that about the flooding in Duluth, wildknits, and thought about you.
I am a nut for maps, and I had to see where this airport of yours was. I was surprised to see it out in the middle of the water! (even when it's not flooding...)
So I take it that strip of land is safe during times like these?
And not far from Aerostitch! You got one?
http://goo.gl/maps/T3dQ
P.S. I sold my stand.
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Rob,
yes - pretty safe spot for the airport/seaplane base. Takes a lot to make the Lake and the estuary rise over that spit of land as there are two outlets on either end of the sand bar. I hear there was a debris field 30 feet deep on the inland shores from all the stuff washed down the river.
We camped there once though a nasty thunderstorm and woke to ankle deep water surrounding the tent (July 4, 1999 aka "The Blowdown" in the BWCA).
I live just one mile uphill from Aerostitch. Dangerous place. And yes, I have a Darien Light jacket as well as Darien pants. Being able to walk in the store allows for a 10% discount as well as ability to peruse the sale rack. The staff have been great to work with on fitting gear for a smaller than average sized rider.
That's okay about the stand - I think we will try for a fix on mine.
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Hi wildknits!
I replaced the center stand on my R65 with a new one and what a difference. I can actually get it up on the stand the first try now. ;D
My old one had rusty and worn through flat spots on the bottom and it was worn down at the top also. The picture above of the repaired center stand looks a lot like how mine is now. I thought it might be a bit unstable like Barry said, but it isn't at all.
So sorry to hear that you've got so much rain at once. We have our first rain of the season here in Northern California, and it's being nice to us. Just enough. We'll get the deluge later though.
Nice to see another woman rider on here. 8-) Welcome!!
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Melena,
Thanks for the info on the stand. The plan is to focus on working on the bike this winter. The weather has turned pretty cold and the bikes are in the hanger for the season. I am done with my trail ultra season so should have a bit more free time on my hands to dedicate to repairs and upgrades.
Other than the flood in June (10 inches in less than 24 hours) we have been, and are still, in a drought. This week looks to be a bit wet, with snow chances by Friday
Yes - nice to "see" other female members!
I look forward to being able to get my bike on and off the stand - safely - on my own!
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Pulled the final drive off today. Going to take a look and see if we can figure out where a slight leak is coming from. There are a few other maintenance issues to deal with while we have things apart.
While on the lift I thought I would try for a few more shots of the center stand and how the bike looks minus a rear wheel and final drive:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111191305588176779095/R65WinterMaintainenceLog?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPjEmfD5rO_alAE&feat=directlink
Finished out our day by taking a walk along the bay to enjoy the sunset and brisk temperatures (6 F with a strong breeze).
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Looking at your stand, I've seen far worse. Yours looks to be only a little over centre. If you are going to build up the tips where they contact the frame stops with weld I wouldn't add too much.
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Thanks Barry - that is what I thought after viewing some of the other center stands.
While not too far over center, it is too much for me to handle - possibly due to my (lack of) height.
Need to get back down to work on it one of these days, but for now the final drive has been sent of for new seals (that looked to be a job best left to the experts).
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Just wondering if your dificulty with the centrestand could be technique. You shouldn't need strength or height to get it up onto the stand. The 'work' is done with your foot, your hand (and back) shouldn't have to do much more than a slight lift and guide it back.
We all assume that everyone knows how to do it but that's nor always the case. I remember getting my first road bike, a CB900F, and thinking at the time that there was no way I could get that huge bike up onto the stand untill someone showed me the correct technique.
This is how we instructed novice riders to do it:
Stand close to and facing the side of the bike. Left hand on the handlebar, right hand on the lifting handle and right foot firmly on the centrestand.
Push down firmly on the centre stand with your right foot while holding the handlebars straight with your left hand and lifting up and back with your right hand.
Things to check: Front brake off, bike in neutral (it needs to be able to roll back).
If the bike feels like it might fall away from you during the process just push down hard on the centrestand and the 2 feet will keep it level.
Cheers
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Just a thought
Operation of the center stand is also a function of ride height so if for example you have lower profile tires or sacked or shortened springs or shorter shocks then the bike will sit lower and lifting the bike onto the stand is going to be harder. If any combination of these factors are significantly lowering the ride height then the only real solution is to shorten the stand.
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Bruce - that is pretty much my technique. Bike harder to get off (aka next to impossible for me alone) the stand then on. One too many drops (and subsequent solo lifts) and I don't even try any longer to get it off the stand by myself.
My husband also says it is harder to get on and off the stand then his bike (he rides a R75/6).
If the bike starts tipping away I have little I can do to hold it up past a certain degree of lean. Just not great leverage when the bike is almost as tall as I am - if you include the windscreen. :-)
One added factor - I live on a gravel road and have no true off-street parking. The flood this summer resulted in a lot of new gravel being dumped on the road to repair damage and a softer parking area. On the plus side - I have ridden my share of loose gravel at low speeds since late June!
Barry - the shocks are standard but are set on their lowest setting so I can reach the ground. I don't think the bike is riding any lower then normal for the R65's.
Will be taking a look at the bushings and bolts as well this winter, may be that it is a simple fix after all.
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Have the bike on the lift for various winter maintenance work, including a look at the center and side stands.(http://)
New bushings on the way for both as that seems to be the main issue. Otherwise the stops looked good.
I hadn't really noticed issues with the side stand, but then I can't deploy it while on the bike anyway (makes other's nervous to watch me dismount and deploy :) )
It has been fun to get a look at the interior workings of the engine and drive shaft. I am not the mechanic in the family so have a barely adequate knowledge of how engines work. Am learning a lot, and haven't annoyed the chief mechanic too much with stupid questions (I hope).