The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: montmil on December 08, 2012, 01:35:01 PM
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My 1981 R65 came with BMW OEM mirrors. All metal, short stem with chrome that was flaking at the handlebar perch attach point. No vibration but the nasty chrome lead to a pair of after market mirrors which I still have on both R65s.
The latest acquisition, an R100S, came with a single, universal, clamp-on handlebar-mounted mirror that was borderline useless; as the glass was positioned well inside the switch assembly. Had to go.
I searched multiple BMW dealer sites (pricey!) and accessory stores but did not find anything that met my needs until I crossed The Pond and checked in with Motobins. http://www.motobins.co.uk/
Their selection is extensive and I found what I wanted.
Here's where it gets interesting. The mirrors I purchased arrived promptly and I soon noticed they are from the same manufacturer as my old R65 mirrors - bumm-Spiegel and made in Germany. My old flaky chrome mirrors had the BMW logo along with the debossed name "bumm". I also recently saw a nasty pair of R65 mirrors on eBay and they were old chrome, as mine, and also had the bumm name.
The kicker is the new mirrors are exactly half the price from Motobins as the same mirrors from Bob's BMW.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbulk-share.slickpic.com%2Falbum%2Fshare%2FzTNcj0IhIMyj1T%2F2787875%2F800%2Fp%2F2787875.jpg&hash=0d82df25affc56da9936e3448db16578182876b3) (http://www.slickpic.com/s/zTNcj0IhIMyj1T/BMWR100S/photo#2787875)
Show more (http://www.slickpic.com/s/zTNcj0IhIMyj1T/BMWR100S)
Look closely at the 12 o'clock position on the mirror head. You may be able to spot the bumm impression.
Motobins offers both the short or tall stalk, chrome or matte black, all at the same price.
Details to note:
The mirror stalks have a non-threaded, reduced diameter where they pass through the perch. A self-locking nut secures at the bottom. Both perches on the R100S are approx 0.50" - 13mm thick so my mirror selection was #90430 (left) and #90431 (right) for the short stalk, matte black finish.
To utilize these same mirrors on the R65, the left side is #90430. However, the right side has a thicker perch - 0.875"-22mm - due to the master cylinder mounting requirements. The correct right-side mirror is #90433. This mirror has a longer reduced diameter shank. Both are secured with nuts at the bottom.
The use of these mirrors will possibly require running a drill bit through the mounting holes to remove the threads. I had one R65 mirror hole that was already boogered up.
The Motobins price is $27.26 each / 17£. Bob's BMW list is $47.00+ each.
Royal Air Mail was $22.45 / 14£. US shipping would likely be around $10.00-$15.00 based on weight. Either way, the bottom line is I saved $30.00 and installed OEM manufactured mirrors. BTW, they work great with zero mirror buzz at any rpm.
Confirm all dimensions and mirror styles prior to ordering as YMMV from mine.
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Nice looking mirrors and a bargain price for OEM quality.
I have the original Bumm mirrors. They are near perfect but now you mention it I notice the beginnings of the chrome flaking at the bottom of the stem on one of then. Shame they didn't make the stems of 304 stainless like the heads.
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... now you mention it I notice the beginnings of the chrome flaking at the bottom of the stem on one of then...
It's just a guess on my part, but I've wondered if the pressure generated during the stem tightening install doesn't create strong forces on the chrome plating that causes the plating to eventually give way right at the base of the stem -usually at the hard edge where the outside diameters change dimensions.
That's one of the reasons I went with the matte black finish. That and the overall black color scheme of the R100S.
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I think you're right about the reason for the chrome flaking.
I've seen that the perch mounting (aluminum) tends to dish from the steel of the mirror stem. And then it's not held very tight and can change position fairly easily, or requires lots of torgue on the nut.
I used to find washers to protect the top side of the perch, but they'd dish as well. Something was needed that wouldn't dish and in that way also protect the mirror shaft.
The solution was hardened washers from the hardware store. They're not chromed or anything, but can be painted which works well enough.
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Nice mirrors, Monte.
I bought a new pair for my R65LS twice - the mirror backing was bad and looking into the mirror, I'd see a lot of black spots that I didn't like.
Moving quickly, as I often do, I ordered the long stemmed mirrors instead of the short ones. Motobins would've exchanged them but I didn't want to pay the shipping back to England. I put the long mirrors on Ebay and sold them right away - still was cheaper for the buyer from me than a US dealer.
To not be completely self-depreciating, the Motobins website is a little hard to navigate - the pictures are really small and the descriptions somewhat incomplete (at least for me). I rebuilt the oil/water pump on my K75S and after it arrived, I found out the impeller for the kit was different and I had to order that from Motobins again - frustrating. But overall a good supplier.
For the R60/5, I'm looking to buy most of my parts from Hucky's and Euromotoelectric - just faster and easier if I need to make a return.
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...the Motobins website is a little hard to navigate - the pictures are really small...
You are aware that by clicking on the small photos, a large photo opens?
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.......... Shame they didn't make the stems of 304 stainless like the heads.
It could be because Stainless Steel tends to "Work Harden" so vibration could have the effect of them snapping over time.
My limited knowledge of Yachts tell me that that is the reason that they use Zinc Coated Steel Cables on Mast stays, so I've been told.
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One of my bikes came with Harley mirrors and they were great. Just like the Bumms, mounted the same, but these were rectangular like the european police version (or so I've been told). High quality chrome - really nice, and they're about half the price of BMW.
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Hi Guys,
While we are at it, could you please help me :
This spring I've removed the RT fairing my '82 R65 had since bought new. (a French option devised by the importer to help selling them)
I needed mirrors, so bought the plastic short handed ones.
I think they are a bit short.
Would the longer one make a difference ? Or are they too long for the job ?
I can't ascertain what kind of mirrors had been fitted by the factory, as advice seems to be as numbered as people I ask ...
Thanks for your help.
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Mirror selection for the R65 can be frustrating, especially if you have the lower "euro" bars fitted. Both my R65s have the lower bars, which I prefer, although quite a few North American imports had a higher bar fitted.
The short stalks can be problematic, often requiring moving about on the seat to confirm no banditos on your six. I've learned to deal with it although it would be nice to be able to take a quick rearward glance without the gymnastics.
The mirror install on the R100S, even with the short stalks, does not have the "cramped" rear view due to the slightly wider than stock low bars installed.
The long stalk mirrors would probably clear the dreaded arm pit view but I think they give the bike more of an insect look.
[smiley=2cents.gif]
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a solution? when i need a clear unrestricted view to check behind , i check my left mirror but lift my left arm up out of the way, voila!
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Yes but images are still very small.
...the Motobins website is a little hard to navigate - the pictures are really small...
You are aware that by clicking on the small photos, a large photo opens?
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I'm with Monte on the short/long stem mirror dilemma. I position mine so I can see the lane to the side of me at a glance; when a quick lane change is needed I don't want to be futzing around ensuring I won't be violating some law of physics putting two things in the same space.
What's behind me isn't near as important.
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In the UK we are taught not to rely on mirrors, as there will aways be a blind spot and a numpty sat in it.
So before making any manouvre look over which ever shoulder is relevent before a change of direction. These are called 'lifesavers' and you will not pass your motorcycle test unless you are demonstrabely (?) carrying out appropriate lifesavers for 100% of the time you are out on the road with an examiner.
I am not saying you should abandon your mirrors, but you should always be looking over your shoulder 'checking you six' before turning or changing lane. And there is aways a cyclist comming up on the inside when in the towns.......
This means that I set my mirror for a good general view to the rear, even if it means I have to move my head a bit to view it. Its even worse with the bar end mirrors.
I will ride quite happily without a mirror. As long as my helmet does not restrict my view too much - which is why I prefer open face helmets...
Rev. Light
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I agree about turning your head before making lane changes - the only challenge I have these days is my head doesn't turn as fluidly as it used to! Wonder if they make small spot mirrors for m/c's like the do for cars & trucks?
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I do use the life saver when changing lanes but my head doesn't turn as well as it used to either. I'm a much more comfortable on single lane roads where you have more complete vision through the mirrors and it's very rare to get surprised by someone passing. Even on multi lane roads if I do get surprised when something overtakes I always think I've not been riding well as I should have been using sufficient observation to see it coming. One bit of advice I give to new motorcyclist is that even if you are going slow on a learner bike you must command your lane by riding in the middle of it and not in the gutter which is an invitation for someone to squeeze past and cut you up.
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There are small convex blind-spot mirrors, but I couldn't ever see anything, they're so small. They're a waste of good mirror space in my book!
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.... As long as my helmet does not restrict my view too much - which is why I prefer open face helmets...Rev. Light
This is a comment on Open Face helmets that I've been looking for. Nobody has actually stated in my inquiring as to which allows the better peripheral vision, open or full face helmets. Usually I'm just told that they are safer (full face) and I should stick with them.
As for Bar End Mirrors, I think Bruce Launceston feels that the Hercules Brand is the go.
Anyway, I'm not comfortable with my "rear viewing" with OEM Mirrors & Full Face.
Now, I have been doing some "neck stretch" exercises (turning my head left to right to its limit a few times a day, when no-one's looking, of course) and that seems to have helped.
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I have a full face helmet and an open face. I much prefer to wear the open face. It does give better visibility and it's much quieter. Even without those benefits I would prefer it for the lack of claustrophobia and wind in your face.
I'm under no illusions that it's as safe as a full face helmet and I even read up on what percentage of accidents I would be disadvantaged by wearing one. 30% of those occasions when the helmet hits the ground was one figure I saw recently. I don't recommend it to others and won't allow a passenger to wear an open face. It's not remotely a sensible choice but lots of people regard motorcycling as not sensible. It's just one more risk assessments involved in riding and I make my own choice.
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A friend gave me a set of bar end mirrors and it took a few rides to get used to them but now I love them and would not go back. It does make the bike a little wider for parking in tight spots but the clear view of the road behind is well worth it.
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I am with Barry on this.
The only fly in the ointment is when it starts raining.....Dang that hurts!
Break out the full face jobby.
Trouble is, my son has taken a shine to my open face Davida Jet for his Vespa P125X......He has already nicked a pair of my boots and gloves!
Rev. Light
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I agree that periphal vision is better with an open face (and perhaps best with a "shorty" helmet). On the other hand, I have a set of riding glasses/goggles that actually impairs my periphal vision more than my current full face helmet does.
Personally, I prefer a full face for safety reasons. Over the years, I have found that the degree of periphal vision you have with a full face varies greatly from brand to brand and model to model.
k_enn
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Yes, I agree with you !
I once bought an open face helmet for hot summer use (I use my bike all year round) and found it too much limiting because of the googles I had to use.
A friend of mine had an accident with an open face helmet. He fell at less than 30 km per hour being pushed by a car. Boy, you should see his face ! He had to suffer many many facial surgery to recover. The surgeon said that if he had had a "real helmet" (his exact words) he would had nothing at all.... the injured face was the ONLY trauma.
When I saw him at the hospital, I put the open face helmet in the garbage first thing I've done back home....
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I've been wearing a full face for the last 20 years. The Arai seems to have a fairly wide opening and I don't have any vision complaints about it. Maybe I'm just that used to it... I do remember feeling closed-in when I first started wearing them.
We get enough rain and cold here in the Portland area that it keeps me much warmer and dry. I close off the bottom with something that looks like a neck brace and it cuts out the wind noise as well.
With my mirrors positioned to view the adjacent lanes I barely need to turn my head to verify the space is empty. I still say it's more important to see to the side at a glance than to the rear (at a glance).
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Back in the 80's I used to wear a Griffin Clubman which had a a bigger than usual aperture that gave good visibility. Wish I still had it as it was a quality helmet commonly used in racing.
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We get enough rain and cold here in the Portland area that it keeps me much warmer and dry. I close off the bottom with something that looks like a neck brace and it cuts out the wind noise as well.
I never noticed, do you have a washable cover for that thing? I could see it getting pretty gross, if not. It would keep rain from spraying up inside the lower part of my helmet though, and cut down even more on noise. I don't get cold.
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Nope - no cover on the thing. I tend to wear a neck warmer in cooler weather so the neck thing doesn't get dirty from me or my sweat - not that I sweat that much here. We tend to get only a week or two of really hot weather. I've never washed it, but maybe riding in the rain counts?
How do you keep your neck from getting cold?
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How do you keep your neck from getting cold?
I don't know. Windjammer. My Olympia riding suit, especially with the liner, zips up around my neck fairly well, but not as high as a turtleneck sweater does. It closes up pretty snugly. It was about 35 this morning and raining, and I was warm. I wore a cotton long sleeve T shirt (Scowling Street Terrors, not that anybody here was probably ever on Brit-Iron-L except maybe Semper Gumby), a polar fleece shirt over that, then my suit. That suit is really warm.
I should rig up some kind of shield to stop water from blowing up from my front tire and brakes and stuff, and coming up by the forks. That gets dirty water on my gas tank and, presumably, me, and it does blow spray up on my face sometimes. Maybe if I could find lowers for my Windjammer that would do it. I've never even had a chance to look at some.
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I'm pretty sure I've got a set of those lowers around here. Scarce item! They're worth more than the whole fairing.
They close off the area from the bottom of the fairing to the cylinders. But they don't close off the area behind the wheel... but I may be wrong about that. Haven't looked at them in a long time.
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Mirror selection for the R65 can be frustrating, especially if you have the lower "euro" bars fitted. Both my R65s have the lower bars, which I prefer, although quite a few North American imports had a higher bar fitted.
The short stalks can be problematic, often requiring moving about on the seat to confirm no banditos on your six. I've learned to deal with it although it would be nice to be able to take a quick rearward glance without the gymnastics.
The mirror install on the R100S, even with the short stalks, does not have the "cramped" rear view due to the slightly wider than stock low bars installed.
The long stalk mirrors would probably clear the dreaded arm pit view but I think they give the bike more of an insect look.
[smiley=2cents.gif]
Thanks Monte, for the tip on the bumm mirrors.
One of my non-OEM chrome mirrors was badly speckled with rust, I was searching for one to replace it when I came across your post on the bumms.
Liked them so much I ordered a pair from Motobins. Just arrived today, very pleased with the fit and the look.
Unusually for this side of the pond my bike has the high bars, so the short bumms are just perfect.
PS: I haven't posted for a long time, occasional visitor, but work has been keeping me very busy for the last year, I really need to retire so I can enjoy my bikes and spend more time on here (and tidy up my garage)!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_0007.jpg&hash=c0128210a2d2c447a41b7140b18137c09d0d3566)
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Like the way your black bumm mirrors tie in with the black fairing. Almost invisiible, they are. Nice visual, that.