The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: badgertom on June 17, 2012, 10:15:54 AM
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Can the 1982 R65 be jump started (without causing any electrical problems)? Also can the bike be started by pushing it down a hill the engaging second gear? I know on newer bikes these starting procedures my compromise the electronics.
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I've jump started mine from cars before, running and not running. It's preferable the car not be running when jumping the bike, however.
What you don't want is arcing or sparking which can send high voltage spikes through the system, killing diodes. I've never had that happen to me but it's fairly common. When the battery is really flat, it may be necessary to hook up the cables and have the car running for a little bit to recharge the battery - I had to do that recently when I'd forgotten to turn the key off after the engine died, and left it for a couple hours. >:(
I've also roll started the bike, though guys have also gotten into trouble going that route. Supposedly it's possible to loosen the UJoint flange on the transmission output shaft. Frankly, I don't see how that's possible if the flange was tightened down properly.
The biggest problem jumping the bike, is getting the jumper cables attached to the bike's battery. I've used needle nose vice grips attached to the terminals with the jumpers clipped to them. Remember that where there's electricity, just like with spark plugs, when the potential is high enough, it'll jump a gap. And you'll get a voltage spike that can be fatal to diodes!
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You can jump start the bike, but from what I've seen in print, if you use the battery from another vehicle, you may want to just do this with the vehicle not running, maybe too much current for the bike to handle, don't really know, I don't have any first hand experience .
If the battery voltage is down in the 9-10 volt range, the electronic ignition won't work if you try to 'bump' start the bike, you may be able to with a contact breaker points type ignition like the '78-'80 bikes have .
If your battery is low on charge, you're use of the bike may be the cause, the charging system on our bikes, really don't do too much to charge the battery, below 3500 rpms .
So, if you ride in 'city' traffic, lots of traffic lights, you pretty much aren't charging the battery .
Check the charging system to see if it's operating correctly, with a fully charged battery, above the 3500-4000 rpm area, you should get around 14 volts, the regulator is set for 14.2 volts .
Checking the fluid level in the battery cells is critical, if you have a serviceable type battery .
Let the fluid level go down on one cell, where the plates are exposed, has pretty much doomed the battery to a shorter service life .
If you do add water to the battery, use only distilled water or RO water (water run through a reverse osmosis treatment system), unless you're out in the middle of nowhere, then you need to do what needs to be done to get you home .
I'm relatively new to battery maintainers, but I am sold on them now .
I put one on whenever the bike is parked for the day in the garage .
This is especially important if you reside in an area where the bike is parked for the winter .
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The only difference having the car engine running will make is to raise the voltage a little but if the car is left running at idle not by much so I doubt it would make a big difference to the starting. It's not as though a car battery is going to have any problem starting a bike so given that the car will have some electronics a whole lot fancier than the bike which might be susceptible to spikes it's probably better to keep things simple and try jumping with the engine off.
On the other hand if the car engine was running it's not going to damage the bike battery because the cars voltage regulator will limit the voltage just like the bikes does so I see no risk to the bike. I see more risk to the car and I wouldn't remove the jump leads while the car engine is running because that will cause a spike.
Why take the risk it's just simpler to try first with the engine off.
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I'll just add I've done it and had no issues later on.
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I've done this on numerous bikes before without any ill effects. One just has to be careful with the connection and disconnection of the leads appropriately. I also, leave the car/truck off .ie. not running just to simplify things and not add more noise to the equation. The battery in an automobile has much more ampere output capability than any motorcycle battery, and if you can't get the bike started on what the auto battery holds itself, well, you aren't going to get the bike started in that condition anyway.
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I did this a half dozen times last year prior to getting the new battery. Yes, the terminals are a pain with the automotive clamp type. But what I found helpful, especially for the positive terminal, was to use the twist out fork that the cable set I have incorporates. I was then able to fork the terminal end carefully while reaching up and hitting the starter. I wish I had another set of hands, but it worked in my situation just the same.
I also bump started it a couple of times too. I didn't like that very much. I did find that if I removed my left side hard case luggage I could get a better running start to get it goiing in 3rd (I think 3rd was best). Yes, I have electronic ignition.
A kick starter is a feature I would have opted for, or vice versa.
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... I was then able to fork the terminal...
It was the jumper cable clamp and all the sparks that "forked" my diode board.
"Fork the terminal" was close to my exact words. [smiley=furious3.gif]
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... I was then able to fork the terminal...
It was the jumper cable clamp and all the sparks that "forked" my diode board.
"Fork the terminal" was close to my exact words. [smiley=furious3.gif]
That's a good point Montmill, though I don't recall encountering any arching those times, at least any that was within the ability of my hearing or visual range; in any event, I think your experience is definitely good enough reason to find a better solution.
I'm thinking that I probably should fashion a better way to facilitate the jumping procedure. Maybe a more reachable terminal end, so that if I am fortunate to have the help of strangers, I can accept a more universal connection.
Besides, with the new battery in place, its terminal is even less accepting of a jump than the old one.
In the mean time I will check my table manners.
:D
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I bought - on Amazon, I think - a pair of "moped" jumper cables which are smalll and a lot easier to fit on the battery. The minus clamp (black) ought to go to something unpainted on the frame or engine, such as the bolt the other end of the black ground cable. That way there is, among other things, more room to position the positive clamp on the battery terminal. The trick is to connect the terminal, negative last, and let the good battery charge the dead one for 5 or 10 minutes. Once you get them connected you can start the "donor" engine for a little extra boost. If you get some charge into the dead battery instead of trying to pull the cranking and battery charge load through the jumpers at the same time, you will have better luck. It's not the cable in most jumpers which limit current flow, but the clamps. Surface area is needed for high current transfer, and the edges of most jumper clamps don't have much of it.
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Fellows: I have an original kick start on my 1981 R65 and for the life of me, I have never been able to kick start it. I know about the cut out and the kill switch. Just can't turn it over with enough velocity.
If I touch the starter button, it cranks within a half second. The kick start is overrated. On the other hand, in my youth, I had a Yamaha XS500B that was easier to kick start than to use the electric starter. Go figure!
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I have both jump started mine from a car battery and have push started it, all without ill effects.
However, due the increase in power from a car, I have not had the car running when I have jump started the bike. Also, due to the lack of space around the bike battery terminals, I connect them first to make sure I have s solid contact, then I connect to the car battery. The last connection to be made, and the first to be disconnected is the negative terminal on the car (Actually, I ground to the car frame, away from the battery) -- to minimize any spiking / sparking issues.
Push starts will work, but if your battery is very weak, it can be hard to get the engine to fire up especially if the engine is cold. Last time I had to do it with a cold engine, I had over a quarter mile downhill I was rolling on, and it took about 4 attempts and almost the whole hill before the engine finally caught (the battery was too weak to turn the starter, but was able to click the solenoid).
k_enn
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MAKE SURE THEY CAR YOU ARE JUMPING FROM HAS A DINKY LITTLE BATTERY!!! I jumped off a truck a couple weeks back and FRIED MY DIODE BOARD. It was pushing WAY too many amps, and I didn't realize it until the smoke was rising. Find some 4 cylinder POS to jump from, if you must... >:(
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I never heard of bump starting your bike to ruin anything but last time I was out my buddy was having issues with his bike so I pulled over to help him out. I forgot to turn of my bike completely. We got his bike started and he took off and I realized my bike's battery was dead. I wasn't able to get a hold of him and there was really no hills around so I just ran along side of the bike and hopped on and was able to get it going. I plan to get a no maintenance battery.
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I've also done the run n' bump GP start with a weak battery -down from too much city stops and short errands. With a warm engine, it's almost fun.
Maintenance free batteries, like the AGMs in both my R65s, are great but they, too, can be flattened by human error, too many miles at low/city revs or neglect. I have and use a couple Battery Tenders. Love 'em.
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MAKE SURE THEY CAR YOU ARE JUMPING FROM HAS A DINKY LITTLE BATTERY!!!I jumped off a truck a couple weeks back and FRIED MY DIODE BOARD.It was pushing WAY too many amps, and I didn't realize it until the smoke was rising.Find some 4 cylinder POS to jump from, if you must..
The size of the battery should make no difference unless it was 24 volts which some trucks are.