The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: rev_mook on June 21, 2012, 12:06:40 PM
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Hey all, I need to replace the tires on my R65 soon while I have the dough. I've been looking at the Metzeler Lasertec's (100/90 18 front, and 120/90 18 rear). From what I've read, these are desirable tires for the R65 and don't track the rain grooves on the California freeways like a record player. I'm wondering if anyone here as other suggestions for tires that I might be overlooking?
Also, this might sound stupid but I've thought about fitting dual sport tires on the bike. From time to time, I find myself out in the middle of the desert on dirt roads which can range from hard packed, to really soft. I've almost dropped the bike (more than once) when suddenly hitting a soft spot. Maybe I should just slow down or stay on the pavement. ;)
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[smiley=argue.gif] Dear Lord. Another DTT...
All I'll say is that the 120/90 rear tire makes rear wheel removal a Royal PITA.
Deflate tire, remove left rear shock, scratch chassis paint... [smiley=furious3.gif]
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Digital Terrestrial Television?
100/90 18 front, and 120/90 18 rear is what's closest to original size in a modern tire from what I've read. This is the first time I've heard about removing the left shock and shoehorning the wheel back in with a 120/90.
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Mook -
Not all metric series tires are actually the same physical dimensions, so some 120/90 might squeak in on the rear, and some will rub, and some will fit OK. Actually, a closer match to the original 4.00x18 rear tire is a 110/90 x 18, if you don't want to go with the actual english standard tires - which are still available but only from very limited sources.
If you have a snowflake front wheel, probably a better tire choice size if you go with the metric sizes is the 90/90 x18. With an R65LS front wheel (NOT a snowflake) the rim width is wider and more suited to the 100/90 tire - you may still get the 100/90 on your bike but the rim width is only 1.85 inches - best to check with tire supplier on recommended minimum rim width for the tire size - I suspect it may be a bit pinched in, which changes the tread profile (adversely). But, I do see people running 100/90s on the snowflakes.
Here are some links to other tire threads from the past year:
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1335558825/4#4
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1329773517/11#11
P.S. In case you haven't found out, TIRE threads and OIL threads are most often the bane of motorcycle forums - you'd be better off discussing gun control and abortion and marijuana legalization in most cases!
It's OK, we aim to help everyone's edjumakation...
Mike
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Here's an updated version of my tire width table. I don't believe anything wider than a measured 120mm when mounted would fit my bike (later bikes may have more clearance). Provided it fits without rubbing I'm then more concerned with maintaining the original tire diameter and therefore overall gear ratios. That tends to means sticking with proper 4.00 tires.
When interpreting manufactures tire width data take note of the rim size because the manufacturers data is only valid for that rim size and the actual mounted width will not be the same when mounted on a different rim. This is one reason why actual measured widths vary so much for what are nominally the same size tires.(http://)
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Gah! Too much information! I was hoping to save a few bucks by buying the tires on the 'net, but I think I'm just going to head to a dealer and take whatever tires they sell me.
It was not my intention to start a Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge type thread. I just need new tires and I don't know what to get.
~M
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There's no easy answer for tires or oil !!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's whatever makes you feel good .
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I just bought a set of Heidenau tires for my LS K36 4.00-18 rear
K34 3.25-18 front.
German made, Grips very well.
So far I have excellent results.
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I have the Michelin Pilot Activs, no rain groove effect at all.
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Ray, What size are your front and rear Michelin Pilot Activs?
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90/90-18 and 120/90-18. It had an over-sized 100/90 front tire before and the fender mounting bolts were 1/8 inch away from the rubber. I don't like anything threatening my front tire in any way, so I went with the standard size and it handles just fine. Mine is an '86 with the cast wheels.
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I've been running Bridgestones - last a long time, wear well, feel good, and are probably the best tire bargain out there. I've run the S11 Spitfires and Battlax BT020. The BT020 is a bit stickier but they both allow me to go as fast as I want, though I do take it easier in the wet.
As for size, I'd recommend staying away from the 120 rear. Besides being harder to fit and mount, the handling tends to suffer and be a bit heavier.
In the front I've always run the 100x90 on all my airheads. They all have the same width rim except for the LS, even though the bigger siblings have a 19" front. The 100x90 has worked fine for me.
I've been running them for fifteen years now and they're excellent tires!
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Keep in mind that all other things the same, the smaller cross section provides "sharper" handling.
I have an '86 with the tri-y rims, and I prefer the 90/90 in front. I've had metzler lazers (going back even before the lazertec update) several times and like their grip, but they wear a bit faster some others. Most recently before my current metzeler front I had a bridgestone.. it was a 100 so a little bit more piggy handling, plus I rode until until it literally lost grip. I've also had a michelin, but it was a while ago and nothing in particular stands out about it. Or was it a dunlop?
Can't remember what size the rear is right now.. pretty sure it's a metzeler though.
I really want to try some other tires, but the problem is that the dealer only keeps a few in the R65 sizes in stock, so ordering ahead is key. Avons look interesting as do the michelin pilot actives. I'd never get a BT45 again though.
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Check out http://www.tiresunlimited.com/default.htm.
Front - 90/90HB18 BW 9 T290303 $82.18
Rear - 4.00HB18 BW 11 T290325 $97.35
I've bought two sets of Continental GO tires from them. Great service, pricing, and given my proximity in Chicago, they are delivered next day. BikeBandit also carries these tires and sometimes their sales pricing, AMA discount, and occasional shipping promotions can save you a few bucks.
IMHO, having a 90/90/18 front tire fits and handles better than anything larger. The bike had 110/90's on it when I bought is several years ago and I noticed a distinct difference using the smaller, more OE, size tire.
RW
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Ended up getting Michelin Pilot Activs, 90/90 18 in the front and 4.00 in the back. Should be here next week sometime. Thanks for the input!
~M
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I've been using Avon Roadrider tires, 100/90 front and 4.00 rear, and am very happy with them. Affordable, drain well, don't grab grooves on the freeway. Worth looking into.
Steve
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I expect a full report after the first ride!
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Ended up getting Michelin Pilot Activs, 90/90 18 in the front and 4.00 in the back. Should be here next week sometime. Thanks for the input!
~M
Not cheap. Let us know how many miles you get out of them, hopefully in a couple of years!
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I recently replaced my Metzlers (Lasertec Front/Me77? Rear) with pilot Activs. Modern tread pattern, but I'm very happy with them. Good wet dry grip and no wandering/tracking. I got 11months/10+kms out of the Metz.
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These are Continentals with roughly 11K miles
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I've been very happy with Avon Roadrider tires. 100/90 on the front and 120/90 rear.
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I took the bike and the new tires I ordered to a motorcycle tire shop. Back tire went on in 5 minutes, but he struggled with the front for over an hour before giving up. The problem was the 90/90 is just too small for the rim.... My old front tire was too worn out to reinstall so he installed a cheap 100/90 Kenda, first without a tube (went flat) then with a tube. By the time I rode the 25 miles home, it was flat again....
So now I have a bike with mismatched tires, one of them is flat and a 90/90 18 tire I can't return. I'm a bit annoyed about the outcome.
:/
~M
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That's odd - a modern 90/90 x18 should fit OK - the 100/90 in some brands is technically too large for that narrow of a rim. Maybe you've been the unfortunate one to discover the fancy high end Michelin Pilots run smaller than other brand's metric profile tires.
I think the fact that he tried to put a tire on tubeless, on BMW with snowflake wheels that had a tube, says something about the experience level of the installer. He *DID* put a tube in the rear tire, right? IF the front tire is now flat then he ended up pinching the tube and making it leak. Does anyone know how to install tires with tubes in that shop?
The snowflakes rims must have tubes in their tires for safety - but that is another corollary of the Damn Tire Thread..
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If you can find a shop that is familiar with airhead bikes, it would probably be in your best interests to take it to them and retry the tire installation .
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Ah! I just noticed under your avatar that you've got an LS, and not a mere ordinary R65, which I had presumed you had... The LS front wheels do have wider rims than the snowflake front wheels, so you could have safely gone with a 100/90 on the front - but I still believe a 90/90 could be fit there - I run a 100/90 on my front tire of my LS, but I know that some have run 90/90 fronts - but not Michelin Pilots on their LS.
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Very odd, mine went on without a hitch ( shop fitted ) and only loose 1-2 psi a fortnight.
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Don't give up hope. Have someone else look at it.
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Ray - I'm not sure what the rim width is on your monolever frame bike, but I would suspect that the width is probably not less than the 2.15" of the LS front wheel? The R65 snowflake front wheel is only about 1.85", I believe.
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The stamping shows 2.5 x 18.
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My rim is stamped 2.15. I'm going to take the wheel and the Michelin 90/90 tire to a different shop tomorrow. The data-sheet says a 2.15 rim is the preferred size, but will fit 1.85-2.50... I'm not sure why the motorcycle tire guy couldn't do it... Maybe the tire I got is defective?
(page 13 on this .pdf)
http://www.michelinmotorcycle.com/pubs/fitment2012.pdf
~Mook
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Ah! I just noticed under your avatar that you've got an LS, and not a mere ordinary R65, which I had presumed you had... The LS front wheels do have wider rims than the snowflake front wheels, so you could have safely gone with a 100/90 on the front - but I still believe a 90/90 could be fit there - I run a 100/90 on my front tire of my LS, but I know that some have run 90/90 fronts - but not Michelin Pilots on their LS.
My LS had 90/90-18 front Continental TKV. So old that it sometimes reminded me of that old Paul Simon song Slip Sliding Away.
Replaced it with 3.25-18 Heidenau. Had a little trouble seating the bead but some soapy water sprayed on the rim and tire got the job done.
Keep trying, Your tire should fit.
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I was hoping to save a few bucks by buying the tires on the 'net,
I have a set of Shinko 712's on mine but zero miles so far. They were less than $100 delivered to Socal. If I ever get the darn thing back on the road I will report if they were any good.
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Interestingly enough - there is a thread in the BMWMOA forum concerning including a guy who just bought Michelin Pilot Activ tire for the front of his R80/7 (snowflake, 19" wheel). Apparently the tire bead on this tire is very stiff - which I would presume is a safety enhancement for tubeless mounting situations. Trying to get it on and levered over a rim with a tube tucked in could indeed be more challenging than a more general purpose/dated design tire. Hmmm
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Took my rim and 90/90 tire to another motorcycle tire shop this morning, and the guy there got it on without too much trouble. He did say the bead was pretty stiff, but plenty of lube was all it needed to pop right in.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.benmook.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F07%2Fwpid-1341333607259.jpg&hash=8573a7e114890d2b7fb9ce5f9ae88caa4ec46c67)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.benmook.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F07%2Fwpid-1341338356965.jpg&hash=0ace78854552f0e21e2f6389e825036d76ee2747)
I'm still upset the first shop I went to sold me a tire and tube I didn't need, which went flat 2 hours later. In addition, the tube he installed was much too big for the tire. It was all bunched up in there! That can't be safe. I'm a bit worried he did a shotty job on the rear tire now.
~Mook
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I'm a bit worried he did a shotty job on the rear tire now.
By all means check your rear tire!
When I bought my LS I found a bunched up tube and the tire held pressure!
Insanely unbalanced. Check he used appropriate 4.00-18 tube.
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I think you can justifiably avoid that first shop for all things in the future - I know that I wouldn't trust them to pump up the tire on my wheelbarrow from that description.
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I would at least try to get a refund for that front tire. Then go to the second guy to make sure the back one is OK. No sense having lurking doubts when it comes to your tires.
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My late father had some young fellow come over (as part of the heating contract) his place to sweat a pipe or two on his boiler. He ended up teaching him how to do it.
Maybe if you speak to the person on top and explain things to them, they MIGHT just appreciate your situation. Remember, might doesn't always make right. Hee hee
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I found the Shinkos to be pretty good for casual riding.