The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: benlawlor85 on December 22, 2011, 08:51:31 AM
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Hi all.
Its been ages since i have been on here, and the bike (R65 mono) has been running pretty well. Untill the other day. on the way home from work after having difficulty starting her she would cough and splutter over about 2k RPM. Finally she cleared and i got home.
Not a clue what it could be. i have checked the plugs, they are fine, but not really sure where to start.
The big problem i have at the moment is that my shed is Full - R1100GS in bits. so the R65 is outside!!!! with a cover on her when weather is really bad. Im wondering if the spluttering could be due to water getting in fuel?
Any other ideas at all?
Cheers
Ben
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Hey, Ben
If you're concerned about water in the fuel, simply drop the float bowls and look for water globs within the fuel.
With the bowls off, turn on the fuel tap and confirm you have proper flow. Go ahead and gently lift the floats to confirm the needle and seat are doing their jobs for you... since you're already in there.
You're not likely to be able to see any water in the fuel tank, so pulling the tank and draining it is your choice. Unless you have duel petcocks, there's always some remaining fuel on the right side of the tank. Could be some water hiding there.
OEM Coils?
Monte
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Hi,
I will check the floats later.
Bike has the OEM coil. its a mono so has the single coil.
what else could be making it run as it does? Bean can having problems?
its my only means of transport at the moment and not having it reliable is not fun!
Thanks for the quick reply.
Ben
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Hi again,
Just taken floats off, loads of water in there probs 30% water!!!!
Thanks Monte. goes to show however much work you have done on a bike before something new however easy can stump you!
Cheers
and Merry Christmas to everyone on here!!
Ben
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Good to hear it was an easy solution!
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How does the seal on the fuel cap look ?
I've put clear in-line fuel filters on my R65's, they seem to catch the water before it gets to the carbs .
http://www.itw-fastex-cva.com/images/stories/data-shts/visufilter/8437-00-9909.PDF
Don't know if anything like these filters are available in your region .
Ignition coils and spark plug leads will give you problems in damp weather as well, as Monte has mentioned .
May want to give them a good inspection as well, if the wires are quite old, you may want to replace them before they leave you stranded in wet weather .
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Hi again,
Just taken floats off, loads of water in there probs 30% water!!!!
Thanks Monte. goes to show however much work you have done on a bike before something new however easy can stump you!
Cheers
and Merry Christmas to everyone on here!!
Ben
"I love it when a plan comes together." –Hannibal... Smith, not Lecter
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Bike has the OEM coil. its a mono so has the single coil.
Several models of the twin-shock R65s have the single coil; frequently known as the Crack-O-Matic and a cause of erratic running when tiny, all but invisible, hairline cracks develop.
Monte
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I have the paper clear fuel filters on the bike.... think they need to be replaced tho. As for the coil i will check it next time i have the tank off i think it was just the water causing the probs. I will also check fuel cap seal its probably original! another item for the list no doubt!
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This is the original single, gray and black Bosch Crack-O-Matic coil off my 1981 R65. The engine had developed poor performance. Note the small, circular pattern cracks. The cracks were invisible under a patina of dust until the coil was wiped clean. Engine operations were worse during damp weather.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOrigCoil01.jpg&hash=a447270ec5268e3d44ba4a6c971f625f7143d9b3)
A Dyna "Brown" coil from Motorrad Elektrik http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm plus new ignition wires and NGK plug caps cured all issues. The '83 R65 received the same treatment although it had not yet begun to display symptoms.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna02.jpg&hash=4b03865120f17e4695d05d85b6345b1e6b23bd1a)
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Back when my R65 had the "crack-o-matic", it was very sensitive to moisture..
Once, I took it into a dealer for something, and they sprayed down the bike... it was at least an hour before it would even start. I can also remember several instances of riding in the rain, and then suddenly developing full engine stop.
These incidents usually resulted in a horizontal beemer and a lot of swearing.
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Hi,
I will check the floats later.
Bike has the OEM coil. its a mono so has the single coil.
what else could be making it run as it does? Bean can having problems?
its my only means of transport at the moment and not having it reliable is not fun!
Thanks for the quick reply.
Ben
Hate to say it, but I had the same problem. Bike would fire up, would rev for a bit, run about 50ft and crap out. Does yours do this?
Bean can. I bought a parts bike, replaced the can, and boom, runs like a top now.
Can Rick @ Motorrad Elektrik, 866-668-6353. WAY cool dude, helped diagnose my problem over the phone. Plus he has solutions if you need them
Good luck!
Dell
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Hi All,
After being left outside but on charge and under a good cover the bike wouldnt start this morning... had to push her! :-(
the coil isnt like the pic above but like
http://www.motorworks.co.uk/bmw/prodimages/lg/ELA44426.jpg
Not sure what to do next. might buy a new battery.
But also considering getting rid of it.
Going back to a R65 mono from the GS was not good
The GS would always start etc etc... but then it was 12years younger!
anyone have any ideas?
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The picture you have is of an OEM coil for later airhead bikes .
You need to due some troubleshooting, before replacing parts .
How old is the battery ?
Is it a serviceable type, or sealed ?
If it's a serviceable type, what is the specific gravity of the electrolyte when it is fully charged, should be 1.290 fully charged .
If the battery is suspect, wouldn't be a bad idea to have it load tested to be sure it's at fault, just to be sure .
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... but then it was 12years younger!
When everything is right an airhead of any age should start on the button. Mine did on Christmas day after being stood since 1st Dec.
Is your petrol fresh ? One thing I always do when the bikes been stood a while is empty the float bowls and let them refill with fresher fuel from the tank. After only 24 days nearly half the fuel in the bowls had evaporated. The more volatile fractions would have gone so it's asking a lot to expect it to start on what was left.
It cant' have been too cold in Cornwall recently but being outside under a cover could there have been some condensation affecting the ignition.
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I realize 'winter' in Phoenix, is pretty mild compared to most regions, but my '81 R65 starts with no problems after being left out at work for 18 hours in temps of mid to upper 20's F (-4 to-2C.) .
This is with 20w50 oil and 10% ethanol in the fuel .
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Yeah. you guys have a point,
The battery is crap, been in her for years when i got her back on the road i just charged it up. So a new one wont go a miss.
I am going to try and make room in the shed this afternoon but its pretty full with the GS and two sea-kayaks and push-bikes etc....
If i can get her in there i can work on her more easily.
Has anyone ever tried the Hicap Starting leads?
http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=20&Ct=IA&SbCt=BA_15_20_IA_15
looks like it could be worth a try.
As for the weather your right its not been cold down here, but as always Very wet, and salty, i work in St ives so the bike is left about 25 yrds from the harbour front each day.
So on shopping list so far is: Battery, Sparks(always worth changing don't you think?)
Is there anyway to check the Bean Can?
Lastly the coil i have, is it still one that gets problems easily?
Thanks again for all your help
Ben
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Hello again also just found these, I have always used the BMW OEM leads.
these look better tho!
http://www.performanceleads.co.uk/ShowDetails.asp?id=236&code=FLA363
ah just noticed it doesnt state its for my year... :(
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Well after a good few hours changing everything around i have the R65 in the shed! have taken the coil off and cleaned it etc looks ok, cant see any hairline cracks etc. what i did notice when taking the float bowls off was very low level on one so i have adjusted the float so it fills up more. also choke spirngs are not returning the choke arm to off all teh time so am working on that. might be worth a carb overhaul at some point soon.
Best thing is that i have the bike in a nice dry shed now. I even i have old alladin Blue parafin heater in there! :-)
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I haven't heard anything about the red plastic body OEM coils, but I replaced mine original gray and black coil with one of those back in '94 .
In '02 or there abouts, I started having cold start problems when the temp was around 55 F (13C.) and lower .
The culprit was the coil, the primary circuit is supposed to have 1.5 ohms of resistance, mine had .7 ohms .
Replaced the coil with an aftermarket Dyna 'brown' coil and no problems in going on 10 years now .
Your mentioning that you are in a salt water coastal area, corrosion may become a factor for you .
A good inspection /cleaning and applying a dielectric grease to electrical connectors may not be too bad of an idea, when you can get around to it .
Living in a desert the last going on 19 years now, I've kind of forgotten about corrosion problems . [smiley=grin.gif] [smiley=grin.gif]
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hi,
yeah i think i will go around greasing contacts etc.
I have had a fun afternoon, after fiddling with the carbs she started first time! which was good. i then took the front engine cover off (she has had a small oil leak from here since i changed the timing chain years ago) I then when inspecting the brushes snapped a spring... and dont have a spare. all is not lost as i have taken the timing cover off and cleaned it all up ready for a new gasket so that should sort out the oil leak. Now a few more parts for the list. Brushes and springs...
Anyway im alot happier now she is in the shed all nice and dry.
The motoeletrik coil is £140 in the uk so i will need to bee 100% sure before buying one of those!
But the NGK leads and new plugs must be worth a try first!
Also you talk about the primary circuit having a resistance of 1.5ohms how do i test this?
Cheers
Ben
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You need a multimeter to measure the primary part of the coil .
Here's a representative sample of what one looks like, if you are unfamiliar with them .
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103176#
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Hi Bob,
yeah i have one, but usually only use it for very basic tests, continuity and checking if switches/bulb holders are getting voltage etc. not used the ohm feature on it before tho.
Ben.
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Hi,
Just tested resistance on the primary windings and am getting 0.7ohms. So guess this means it needs replacing!
http://www.dynatekuk.com/accessories_dyna_coils.html
is the DC2-2 the model i need?
are the dynatek worth the 40% more over the one from James sherlock
http://www.james-sherlock.co.uk/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.browse&category_id=516
Cheers
Ben
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Ben
No way on this planet would I pay £140 for an ignition coil.
Dyna coils are very good and the DC2-1 is the correct coil with 1.5 ohms primary resistance. I think the price you are seeing may be for 2 coils. They are not easy coils to buy in the UK.
The James sherlock coil would be fine as would similar coils from Motobins or Motorworks. There are other alternatives that may be cheaper. Early Honda Goldwing coils with 2.2 ohm primary resistance are said to work well and are recommended for use with some aftermarket electronic ignitions.
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Hi Barry,
You are correct it is for two coils, i have emailed them! so fingers crossed will get a reply soon. Of they dont sell them individually anyone in UK need a coil and willing to go halfs?
What HT leads do most people use? OEM NGK? Dynatek?
Ben.
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Use copper core HT leads which you should be able to get by the metre and LB05 5K ohm NGK caps.
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The first coil in the picture from James Sherlock, is an OEM BMW coil, like one you already have .
Not to tell anyone what to do, but a few UK members here have gotten the Dyna from Motorrad Elektrik .
Current price is $90US for one coil, this includes the adapter bracket .
http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm
I think this would be around 60GBP, I'm sure one of our UK members could post the shipping cost from the US .
Or you could send an email, the owner Rick Jones, is one of the better people to do business with, he comes highly recommended .
Just a thought .
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Hi Bob,
I have emailed Dynatek in the UK asking if they can ship individually. so fingers crossed they can. I think you are right tho and i will be going for a dynatek coil.
Also on a totally different note, i have the timing cover off and a paper gasket on order, but i remember when i used to work on my old MG midget the general thought was use instant gasket in the place of paper ones. What do you guys use?
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Use the paper gasket .
One little part of the gasket, that seems to get misplaced, is a paper gasket about the size of a washer (7-8mm or so) it goes between the cover and engine block in the upper center the lone bolt that goes through there in the area where the alternator sits .
Forget to put that on and you will get a leak .
If you don't have one, you can make it from paper gasket material .
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Hi All.
Just had an email from the guys at Dynatek UK
Coil is £70
and leads from them £13.
Think i might go with that...
what do you all think??
Ben
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£70 is a bit more like it. Still more expensive than the same coil would bein the US but isn't everything.
Does it come with the mounting bracket ?
As Bob already mentioned the US supplier charges 90$ with the bracket.
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Hi Barry,
Think the bracket is ontop of that. I have just emailed them again asking about the bracket.
But its less than the BMW/bosch coil £98 from motorworks
90 US is about £60 add on shipping. and risk of having to pay duty and VAT and probs works out the same if not more.
I report back when i get a reply from them.
Hopefully will have her back on the road by the end of the week! :-)
Ben
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Hi again.
I think i will order the coil tomorrow, They dont have the bracket in stock and its about £18 so i will fabricate one. maybe from fibreglass.
The leads they supply are graphite core and are 4ft long @ £13 each seems a waste as dont need them that long plus i need copper core right?
NGK leads are £6.12/m and caps are £3.06 so loads cheaper. but obviously the caps are not bonded to the wires like the Dyna ones.
Last question.
I usually use OEM bosch sparks but thinking of using NGKs
what is the correct model? BP7ES is listed up to 84 but mine is a 87 mono.
any ideas? or just stick with bosch.
Cheers
Ben
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Not familiar with the monoshock bikes, Bosch I think stopped making non-resistor plugs for our bikes a few years ago .
The NGK plugs you noted, is a pretty common plug for our bikes .
Graphite core ignition leads, could be resistor type leads, copper is probably the better route .
To make is simple, our bikes need non-resistor leads, non-resistor plugs and 5k ohm sparkplug caps for bikes with electronic ignition .
A few members here have opted for 0 ohm sparkplug caps and then use a resistor type sparkplug .
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I wouldn't trust fiberglass to support the coil. It's not difficult to bend and cut a piece of flat plate to size - much stronger and less likely to crack.
Definitely don't use the graphite leads - copper is the only way to go. And the NGK caps, even though they're not bonded, don't have a problem sealing out the water.
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I wouldn't use graphite leads either. They don't last and you won't be sure how much resistance you are adding.
You should check with the NGK web site to be sure but I suspect the mono bikes will use the warmer Bosch W7DC plug so the equivalent NGK would be a BP6ES.
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yeah metal probs easier.... i just like making stuff from fiberglass! :)
Think The NGK leads should be a winner and the dynatek coil..
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I hear ya - I used to make fiberglass parts for airheads back twenty years ago. Lots of fun - it's like magic everytime I'd pop a new part out of the mold. Nothing.... now there's SOMETHING! :)
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Hi guys, I had the same thing with my stock coil (83 LS) out of sheer desperation I riged up two GT-40 coils that are ment for cars, so now my cylinders have a coil each and the beast thing is if I have one fail I can just take it out of the circuit and run only one to get me home!, yes that involves splicing the spark plug leads together I know but hey if it works it's all good ;). if you guys want I can post photos of my set up?.
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would be interesting to see the setup joe!
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Twin Coils on my R65 LS.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi741.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx59%2FBMWR65LS%2Ftwincoils2.jpg&hash=4a12282fb5ecbf027dcfc1185f49cf6739d05e92)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi741.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx59%2FBMWR65LS%2Ftwincoil.jpg&hash=f1760c7a11aee4aa7281a62fbab69c6e64c237f8)
This is much cheaper and puts out a really good spark. I have never had starting problems since I put these in. They have been in for about three years now.
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Thanks for the pics looks interesting.
My problems seem to just get worse!
Today i was planning to get her started and all put back together so i can use her for work tomorrow.
And she just wouldn't fire! so i checked the carbs... all fine
then checked Coil (still the old one at the moment but it would always fire before) seemed fine so i pulled HTs out and the end of the HT lead snapped off being left in the coil.
I also checked the timing sensor (bean can) and there was more of that black washer than was mulllered around the engaging prong. also the prong moves quite a bit in and out and side to side.... im assuming the washer was some kind of thurst washer. could this also be teh reason she wasn't starting...
Once again i dont know what to do. I was going to order the Coil tomorrow. but could the timing sensor also be ruined? They are very pricey. cheapest and best way seems to be to get a new fully electronic version but then are about £220
Also any other reason she woulnt start?
The work i did was as follows, remove front cover and timing cover, roto etc, replace gaskets.
Then solder on new alternator brushes and srpings and refit teh whole lot, thats when i miss aligned the timing sensor, (see other post).
Surely it has to be coil/leads or sensor.
as it was starting before..
Cheers
Ben
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also the prong moves quite a bit in and out and side to side.... im assuming the washer was some kind of thurst washer. could this also be teh reason she wasn't starting...
Some side to side movement on the pin is normal to allow for alignment. The shaft itself should not move side to side nor should it move in and out. It would have to move in quite a long way to lose drive from the camshaft and be the cause of a failure to start. Easy enough to check - turn the engine over with the bean can end plate off and watch for rotation. Either way the can is going to need a rebuild to replace this plastic washer if that's what it was.
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... also the prong moves quite a bit in and out and side to side.... im assuming the washer was some kind of thurst washer. could this also be teh reason she wasn't starting...
The component with two dogs on the engine-end of the bean can is supposed to 'wobble' just a bit. The design allows for any mechanical inequities in the cam-to-ITU engagement.
You may be correct regarding a thrust washer. There is very little designed-in fore and aft movement of the ITU's shaft. Metal shim washers usually have a fiber washer between them.
Taking down the Ignition Trigger Unit (ITU) is doable but be very aware of the order in which components come away. Use the web sites as aids. Other than the Hall sensor, ITU parts are now made of unobtainium.
My concern is the debris you state seeing on and around the ITU's engagement dogs. My wonderment is if there's not something failing inside the timing case. ?
Take care of the coil and plug leads first. Hall sensors rarely fail.
Monte
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Hi barry,
thats what i was thinking, im pretty sure its staying engaged. any idea where to get parts to rebuild it? as in the washer. im assuming the hall sensor etc is fine.
Also i have just found the connector that the wires from the startermotor/soilnoid to the coil (LT circuit) was quite corroded. think ill just buy a new connector and put that one. is with worth replacing the wiring too?
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It's highly likely something changed with the recent work, so that's the first and best place to look.
By the way - I can't really tell what changed between the time it was starting to when it didn't?
Most immediate problem is the HT end. Those are normally soldered on, so that's easy. Dig the clip out of the coil socket, whittle back a little of the insulation and solder it back onto the lead. Make sure the socket is bright and shiny copper for the best connection.
If you have a multimeter, take an ohm reading from one lead to the other straight through the spark plug caps - should be somewhere around fifteen to twenty thousand ohms.
Do the spark plugs spark when cranking the engine?
I doubt the carburetors suddenly stopped working - unless they're not getting any fuel. So rather than getting upset, tearing your hair out, and pulling the bike apart looking for something obviously broken, it's best to routinely walk through troubleshooting steps to locate the problem. Gotta be smart about this - the shotgun approach is kind of crude and may work sometimes, but not enough to give any real satisfaction. And besides, it can be really expensive buying un-needed new parts.
I don't follow you on the black washer around the prongs. But there is a test for the bean can, but it does require constructing a simple circuit with a light bulb and resistor. Or it can be tested when installed. One of the easiest methods is to disconnect the plug to the bean can and then with the ignition on, ground the center terminal. If the spark plugs spark, when they didn't before, the bean can is bad.
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... One of the easiest methods is to disconnect the plug to the bean can and then with the ignition on, ground the center terminal. If the spark plugs spark, when they didn't before, the bean can is bad.
Use the terminal block coming from the engine area, not the three-pronger from the ITU.
Pull and securely ground the plugs to the cylinders. A paperclip can be used as a jumper. With ignition on, touch the end to a ground point on the chassis and each time you touch, the plug should spark. No worries, it's won't shock you. Also, confirm the handlebar ignition toggle switch is in the run position.
Mongo
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Hi all.
no spark,
did the test still no spark.
Will order coil and HT leads tomorrow.
and fingers crossed the Timing sensor is ok.
Ben
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Whoah... we still haven't determined the coil is bad - so let's not jump to conclusions!
What we determined was that the bean can isn't necessarily bad. Sometimes more than one thing can fail, and until it's proven good, it's suspect. Anyway, the test showed you're not getting a spark when the ignition is told to spark (that's what the bean can does).
The ignition system contains the control unit (really just an amplifier) and the coil. The coil is easier to test so...
Let's test the coil. Ok?
Make sure the coil has +12V coming to it.
The other coil terminal goes to the control, and when the bean can says "SPARK!" the control until gives the command to the coil.
To make this all as simple as possible to explain, the spark plugs spark when the coil is grounded. The bean can makes a ground connection at the right time, the amplifier magnifies that ground and gives it to the coil - and you have S P A R K !!!!
So, all you have to do is ground the other terminal (the one that doesn't have +12V, and the plugs should S P A R K !!!
Do that and let us know what you find.
You see - it's just possible you'd install a new coil and still not have a spark because the real fault is somewhere else - like the kill switch or the wiring somewhere.
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The coil is known to be bad. its where the original problem started.
The bean can issue was just me being stupid and not refitting it properly!
thanks for the info tho its interesting to know whats going on in there!!.
Ill try what you have suggested that tomorrow.
Ben
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Have you looked at the two fuses under the rear of the tank? you may have shorted one out when you was fixing stuff.
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But the ignition isn't fused... at least that's my recollection.
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The ignition is on a circuit protected with a fuse .
I think the only circuit that doesn't go through a fuse, is the headlight .
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I would be starting at the Battery and checking the live feed from there all the way to the spark plugs, find out at what point does the live 12 volt feed stop. If you have power right up too the coil but not after you can then say it's the coil, if power only up till the been can then problem may be here ect ect. but always look at the little things like fusses, batteries and earth grounds first. I had a mate bring me his bike out of frustraition once, he had replaced most of the big expensive stuff and still it would not run, I looked it over and found that his main earth was not good in contact. I resolderd it and turned the key and away it went ::). in Auto electricks the villan is the earthing 95% of the time.
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Definitely! Don't ignore the grounds. It's really common to assume the hot side is the important one and so only pay attention to them. But the ground is every bit as important, so neglect at your own risk!
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Hi,
thanks for all the responses. Fuses are blade type and in a housing and are fine. battery earth is fine (i think) bike turns over nice and fast. a few of the corroded contacts is what is troubling me at the moment. I think the best way maybe to just replace them with euro style connectors while replacing most of the LT circuit at the same time.
One thing that i have always found strange is how small the wires are in these bikes yet have a relatively powerful electrical system.
Will give an update later.
off to work now.
ON THE BUS!!!!!
:-(
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OK. so this gets a little odder. i came home to try the same test as i did last night, ground the centre pin that goes to the timing sensor, and she sparked away! So i decided to try and start her, and she started! great i think.... quick turn of teh timing sensor and she was running ok...
I then notice the GEN light is on!!! Great! one problem to another.
The tests i have done so far. regulator off and blue/black wires jumped, light comes on. also tried a spare regulator i had from my old R80, same thing.
Short the two slip rings on the rotor, light stays on.
Ground the DF brush on stator, stays on. (but goes off when its not connected or grounded)
Im a little confused now. I swapped the diode board with the spare, again from the R80 no change.
also there is no charge going to battery when bike runs. stays at about 12.5v
any help as always would be greatly appreciated.
oh i have also cleaned many contacts that were corroded and squirted battery terminal stuff on them.
Ben
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OK so the problem in my mind seems to realy be low battery charge.
Your stock system is having trouble keeping it up ;D.
1) How long are your alt brushes (if in doubt swap em out).
2) The earth from diaod board too engine case is bad on these bikes (to overcome low charge on mine I ran an earth wire from Neg side of dioad board too the little bolt that holds the starter motor in).
3) I also put a earth wire from the Neg battery termanal up to a bolt on the rear frame, all charging issues fixed.
4) For it not to work one day and then work the next is telling me you have a loose or intermitant earth conection ie the curcuit is being inturupted by the bike being moved ect.
5) One more thing that can help is to fit an adjustable regulator and set it by hand to 14 volt.
6) Allso remember that these bikes don't start putting out charge till they reach 2 or 3thousand RPM, so low revs in the shed will slowly kill battery charge.
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Hi Joe,
Battery is on order should be hear tomorrow, the old one has been on a C-tek which is why im assuming the bike started today!
I replaced the Brushes and springs the other day as a matter of course.
I will double check the earthing on the diode board.
Is there anyway to check if there is any power coming from the alternator?
Im just very confused on this problem as everything with the charging system was fine before!
Ben
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Did you remove the brush holder from the alternator to replace the brushes ?
If you did, there are insulating fiber washers that keep the hardware from the wire that gets it's power from the voltage regulator from touching ground .
It pretty much makes the alternator 'dead'/ no power output, due to the power that should be going to the rotor, is now going straight to ground .
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BOB YOU STAR!!!!
Thanks so much!
i had put both fibre washers on the front. so both terminals were going to ground.
Nice easy quick fix! thanks again!!
Ben.
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I'm having difficulty following this. More specifics are needed.
Here's the situation currently as I perceive it:
Engine and ignition now working fine.
Charging system isn't - Red Charge light is on and doesn't go out, even when the engine is revved about 2K.
Because the light is on, you know there's a current path to ground - the rotor isn't open, so no need to test the slip rings. The light being on tells you that the path to ground (for the charge bulb) is good. It goes through the brushes to the rotor and then to ground. The rotor could be bad (with a shorted winding) but you definitely know it's not an open winding.
When testing the voltage regulator, was the engine running and revved up to two or three thousand RPM?
We need to know exactly what conditions the tests were done under - engine running, RPMs, and stuff like that. Otherwise it leaves doubt as to what exactly is going on.
And I agree - make sure the battery is in good condition before going any farther.
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Ta da!.........95% of the time it's an earth problem, this is yet another example of this rule.
in this case he left a felt washer off, earthing both posts out to the bikes body by the sound of his last post.
Glad it ended well for you mate. ;)
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yeah silly mistake... made the same evening i mis-aligned the bean-can.
Have new battery and HT leads arriving today. So that combined with now being kept inside should make starting alot easier.
I did notice that the spark seems to be alot stronger yesterday after i cleaned all the connectors on the bike. so am going to put of getting a new coil for the moment. But ill be sure to keep checking it.
thanks again
Ben
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If you did, there are insulating fiber washers that keep the hardware from the wire that gets it's power from the voltage regulator from touching ground .
Bob, I went on to the Max Motorcycle's parts micro-fiche website and on the page for "Alternator, Individual parts" (12-0737) I did not find any felt washers. However on the "Cover" 11-1171 I did find a washer/gasket (2 required). Are these the ones you are talking about. I'm curious because I will be getting into that pretty soon on my LS. Thanks. [smiley=bmw_smiley.gif] D2
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No, I don't see them listed on either illustration .
I even went to other displacement bikes and still have not found them .
The washer/spacers are phenolic/fiber material, not felt .
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DaveTwo,
Those two small, circular gaskets used in combination with the timing case-to-block gasket are there to keep the timing case "flat" to the engine block. Evidently, leaving them off can lead to potential uneven seating of the timing case.
Some peeps just use bits of the used case gasket. The timing chain replacement kit that I purchased from Motobins had everything, including the two 'donut' gaskets that I would have missed.
Monte
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The fibre washes are used with a small cylinder washer too its very basic when you think about it (i obviously didn't) one terminal is grounded the other is live, the live one is isolated from the ground using the two washers and the cylinder shaped one. This isolates the bolt that attaches the brush housing to the stator.
Hope that helps.
Ben
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This is a very interesting and helpful thread. when I begin to remove the alternator/brushes and the timing cover I will be on the alert for the
two washers and the cylinder shaped one. This isolates the bolt that attaches the brush housing to the stator.
so I make sure to get it back in the right order. This is not the first time that what I see on my LS is not what is represented in Clymer or BMW parts Fiches. This also makes me think that in the future when I do some wrenching I will continue my practice of photographing everything as I take it apart [smiley=bmw_smiley.gif]
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Dave2 thats so important. Take as many photos as possible and annotate you manual. I have the haynes manual and the wires that go onto the alternator are not listed to what colours go where. the other wire i always get confused with in the black wire that is paired with the blue wire that goes to the back of the diode board. it goes to the starter... i cant tell you how many times i have forgotten where that goes!
On a happy note. according to the tracking data my parts have arrived! So should have her working 100% this eve! :-)
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Hi all just for an update.
I had a couple of weeks of work with the plan of doing some winter walking in the Lake District.... but all the snow melted! So i thought great can get on with the bike.... but no i had to finnish the bathroom!! :-(
I finally got around to ordering the Coil and some NGK caps and leads. That was my first problem nowhere could i get the ends that go into the coil, the ones on the old BMW leads were messed up badly. I finally placed an order with http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/home
i also ordered some 4 way connectors as there is a bodge with a choc block under the tank works fine- looks crap. The HT ends i got were the crimp type http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/83/category/17 and they fitted a treat now when you pull the wire it pull the sheathing now the wire core, must be a plus over the BMW ones. Think i will re end the BMW ones i have and use as a spare. I also bought a tube of http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/827/category/154 seems to be better than the stuff i had bean using!
Sorry... looks like this is going to be a long post!!
So with the coil and leads fitted she fired first time! :-) but spluttered and stopped soon after! :-( I then checked some contacts both the big brown earth - cleaned and re-fitted then any connector that had brown or back in it, there was one three way and one two way. They were awful, even tho i cleaned etc the other day the contacts had had it. So i dis asembled and used the new spades i bought and then contralubed the **** out of them! I then also found teh fuel filters were very dirty so cleaned them (there are single use but i dont have any spares at the moment).
Fired her up, adjusted timing (as i removed the bean can to check to see if the missing shim was giving it any grief).
AND SHE IS RUNNING LIKE A DREAM!!!
So a big thanks to you all but especially Bob who helped me with the alternator.
Now i can get back on with the fun bits... upgrades and accessories etc! :-)
Ben
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Excellent news! Another situation of dodgy connections, plugged filters and blocked sparks. Easy peasy! :)
I feel your satisfaction!