The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: tvrla on November 30, 2011, 01:31:44 AM
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I've never worked on or replaced the LS front wheel bearings. I looked for a FAQ, but didn't see any likely threads. Mine don't need replacing, but I am curious.
From the reading I've done, these bearings are apparently sealed for life. has anyone ever greased them?
Has anyone had to replace them? What sort of mileage can we expect? Snowbum says 40K - my bike has probably 60K and doubt they've been replaced. Do they have a steel liner the outer race seats in, or is it aluminum all the way like earlier hubs? It would make sense it's all aluminum due to the instructions to heat the hub to sizzle hot when removing the bearings.
Finally, it appears the bearings are the same size as the earlier roller bearings (30203A) - it seems possible to install roller bearings instead of balls, the only problem is setting preload. Has anyone gone this route?
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I haven't replaced mine yet - only have 22K on the bike and they are working fine. They are indeed sealed units so you don't need to lube them, though I periodically pull the front wheel to clean & grease the axle and area around there
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I took my wheels and tires to a man named Stanley Gardener of Gardener Racing Concepts in Ellsworth Me. He has had a very successful career of building motorcycle engines and bikes for drag racing. He currently has a full machine shop and continues to build engines and has started selling tires. So the point of all this is that he removed my tires and the bearings from the front and rear wheels in preparation for powder coating. My bike has approx. 14,000 miles on it but the bearing and races need to be replaced. He observed that the races and the roller bearings were unevenly discolored, which he said was the result of overheating due to lack of grease. He has no vested interest in this since I'm not buying my parts from him. My R65LS has spent about 10 years in a barn or under a tarp so maybe the grease dried out and should have been repacked. He also showed me some ceramic ball bearings which are very expensive but there is a night and day difference between the rolling resistance of steel bearings and the ceramic ones. (Too cool)He uses them in his racing engines/bikes. They are amazing 8-) Dave2
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Thanks Dave! Makes me want to figure out how to grease these things - they're sealed up pretty well. The first problem is figuring out how to remove the seal without damaging it.
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I don't think that one can remove the seal on sealed bearings without damage, or compromising its ability to seal again. I'd just get new bearings myself.
I'd never seen the ceramic bearings Dave mentions - if they are available in the same size might be worth trying, though roller bearings handle side-loading better than ball bearings (perhaps not really an issued unless fitting a sidecar).
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spokes,
I'm not familiar with the LS wheels but I've done numerous snowflakes. One way to be sure if you have a steel insert is with a simple magnet. The seals should just pry out carefully. I would replace them (anually) so destroying them shouldn't be a concern. The process gets a little complicated with all aluminum hubs but very doable. It was my belief the all aluminum hubs went away after 1978. But as I mentioned, I'm not familiar with the LS wheel. Packing the bearings is quite simple. You may want to look into the preload adjustment if you're going to replace the bearings. The preload procedure is involved and will take some special tools. Here's a few links to some of my snowflake bearing jobs...
special tools
http://tinyurl.com/4oy2mvw
front snowflake
http://tinyurl.com/46jnfyg
rear snowflake (all aluminum)
http://tinyurl.com/48ju5lt
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Most people probably know this but just for clarity in the thread an LS rear wheel has the same taper roller bearings as other R65's and an LS front wheel has standard ball races as have 85 on bikes.
Maybe the ball races can be replaced with taper roller bearings. If it was me though I think I would leave them alone unless you were thinking of a side car and needed the extra lateral thrust capability of taper rollers. BMW's sidecar heritage is the reason taper roller bearings were used in the first place.
If you do need to replace them ball bearing races should be cheaper.
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Most people probably know this but just for clarity in the thread an LS rear wheel has the same taper roller bearings as other R65's and an LS front wheel has standard ball races as have 85 on bikes.
Thanks Barry, I didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification. But if you are repacking the tapered roller rears, it would be a good time to closely examine the rollers and races for damage (brinelling, heat, etc.) and at least experiment with some preload feel if you have access to a take-up collar or adequate axle spacer. If the races and rollers seem to be in good condition my guess would be the preload is adequate and a pack-n-go would be fine. Replacement of the tapered roller bearings and races (30203) is a fairly simple procedure with the wheels that have steel hub inserts.
I would recommend replacing all bearing seals annually as a regular maintenance procedure along with repacking of the tapered rollers when applicable. I learned this the hard way with bearing damage caused by water as shown in the pictures from my links.
Then again, if it ain't broke...
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Thanks Dave! Makes me want to figure out how to grease these things - they're sealed up pretty well. The first problem is figuring out how to remove the seal without damaging it.
Now that I'm reading this thread I realize that I was thinking that both wheels have the tapered bearings, I'm sorry for adding confusion to the discussion. My front wheels have the sealed bearings. As for the ceramic bearings I think some company makes them to the specifications of the particular application, so if you wanted a sealed ceramic bearing for your front wheel for a hefty price they would build it for you. Stanley was telling me that a tapered bearing for the engines he builds, (mostly older Suzuki and Kawasaki when the cranks used them) just one bearing in say a race with 12 bearings costs him $100.00 or $1200. per race. I think it ends up around 10 grand just for the crank shaft :D Some serious speed seekers out there. D2
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Thanks guys!
I am well aware of the roller bearings used in beemers and their maintenancle. It's these ball bearings that are new to me. I'm surprised how little rolling resistance they've got - on the truing stand, the axle doesn't even spin with the wheel!
I am curious how the rear is set up - but so far I've been involved with other more pressing issues with the bike. Now that those fires have been put out, perhaps it's time?
As a side note to squelch any possible confusion - the regular snowflakes are made by BMW, but the LS wheels are made by Weinmann for BMW in Switzerland.
I'm guessing the front doesn't have steel inserts the bearings are pressed into - reason I say that is because the instructions for replacing/installing bearings is to heat to sizzle hot. I guess with the bearings out, the magnet trick would work, but my wheel is all together.
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As a side note to squelch any possible confusion - the regular snowflakes are made by BMW, but the LS wheels are made by Weinmann for BMW in Switzerland.
Spokes, looks like it was me that caused the confusion with my ignorance of the LS wheels. Sorry to trip things up in the thread.
-Mike V.
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Yes, indeed, the LS FRONT wheels, unlike all the other airheads of the same time period, came with sealed bearings. The LS rear wheel uses the same, re-packable tapered roller bearings like you see on the snowflakes.
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Not a problem, Mike... just don't ever let it happen again!!! ;D
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I'm surprised how little rolling resistance they've got - on the truing stand, the axle doesn't even spin with the wheel!
I nearly mentioned that as another advantage in that a wheel with ball races would be easier to balance. If they spin free enough you could do a tolerable job without the need for a proper wheel balancing jig.