The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Bob_Roller on May 15, 2007, 07:08:56 PM
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Ed, you havn't posted any findings on your transmission problem, any ideas yet?
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To tell you the truth, I haven't been too motivated to look at it, especially as the Triumph is running great. I did prop up the rear wheel on the center stand and made sure the rear wheel splines are fine, by turning the wheel and feeling the u-joint turn. The problem could still be the tranny input splines (which would possibly be under warranty, or at least Ted Porter might feel guilty and cut me a deal) or, more probably, some sudden clutch failure. The '81 year is known for having some poor quality or design issues in the clutch. I seem to remember it was the carrier, but I'm not sure. I suspect when I remove the tranny it will be easy to find the problem.
For anybody who didn't notice my brief rant, the bike quit on me down in Medford, 4 hours away. The tranny feels like it goes into gear, the neutral light goes out, but there's no moving when I let out the clutch. Pulling in the clutch lever does pull the lever behind the tranny, so nothing visible is broken. I can put it in gear and turn the rear wheel without turning the motor, so there is an obvious power disconnect. And my whine is that I haven't even paid off my tranny rebuild costs, and clutch parts will run about 400, if I do NOT upgrade to the newer style throw out bearing assembly.
For now, on my days off I've been thinning my forest land and making firewood before the forest fire season starts and they shut down the woods, but I expect I'll pull the tranny within a month to see what is going on. Don't be surprised if I show up at Chief Joseph on an old Triumph Bonneville, though!
Thanks for asking.
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Thanks for telling.
Cutting wood can be a good pastime.
I don't remember if 1980 R65's still had the "heavy" (for a R65) flywheel or not.
If the '81 was the first year, it might be one of those dreaded "first year" things...
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HI Ed,
Most of the 1980 year was the old style clutch. Some of the last months may have been the new lighter clutch. I don't have my silver 08/1980 parts book at hand....
Sounds like input spline perhaps or clutch friction plate hole where the spline goes in. Bad luck. What you just rebuilt the tranny? Common..pull it apart and show us the pics. Enquiring (and nosey) minds want to know.
My BSA is not at reliable transportation status yet. Glad the Bonnie is. Bonnies are beautiful bikes. (Got a pic?) ::)
TTFN,
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Thanks for telling.
I don't remember if 1980 R65's still had the "heavy" (for a R65) flywheel or not.
If the '81 was the first year, it might be one of those dreaded "first year" things...
Yep, the "first year" thing. It's one of the reasons Oak advises against '81 models, and mine is one of the first, November '80. Mine also lacks the shift kit upgrade they started installing in '82, as I didn't want to pay the extra 200 dollars for it, and because I have learned to shift it fine, with very rare false neutrals. But it still made it 50,000 miles. And I only paid 500 bucks for the bike, 30,000 miles ago. It just seems like it's costing me now, but I'm sure when it's all settled (don't forget plastic valve deformation, some day!) that it will go forever.
Yeah, I need to get some new bike pictures and a web site to host them. Blah....
Oh yeah: cutting firewood is good, but thinning my forest land almost feels more like a religious thing; I'm not just benefiting from my work, but making my forest a nicer place both biologically and visually. I know I can't make it old growth in my life time, but I can help it along the way faster than would happen without interference.
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Hey ed, planning on bringing it up in June an dropping it at the tech day? Several of us have experiance removing trannies, and clutches when your not looking. ;D
Though fewer of us have experiance putting them back in. :-[
Ill certainly help you pull it if you come up.
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Ah Mike. So you're still with us.
I can't make it up to the June tech day, which will be my loss.
As you (though not everybody else on this forum) know, pulling trannies is not a big challenge for me: partly thanks to you. And Brett, I think. And myself.
It would be cool if you could come down and entertain me whilst I do the job, though. Like, by asking questions such as "Should you use such a large hammer, Ed?" in the midst of my maniacal laughter. Or sobbing, I can never get the two actions straightened out correctly.
Thanks, though,
Ed
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yeah, im still here, but dont check to fourms like I used too. Dodgeball and Kickball, Barley Thereapy, work, and now changing jobs has taken away my formerly ubiquitous computer time. And the new work schedule is a guessing game of when I will have any free time.
But since my bike is running so great, I havent really needed any help from the groups. The Voltage regulator went Tango Uniform a few weeks ago, and resulted in McMinnvilles finest, officer M. Larue, helping me push start the bike after issuing me a "performance award." With BMWOR 2 miles away, I have seen Zack the parts guy 2 times every week, getting the little odds and ends to keep me rididng, including a new tension spring for the drum brake, and muffler bolts and VR, and brake switches.....
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OK, got the tranny pulled today and found pieces of clutch friction material all over in the bell housing. I removed the clutch and the disk is trashed, one side of the material is all gone and ground up, the other side is an intact ring but not attached to the clutch disk. So I'll be in for cover plate, clutch plate, and pressure plate at least. I don't know how to tell if the spring is still good; it's one part that apparently did not get upgraded after '81. It looks OK. My Haynes doesn't list a height for it. On the other hand, if this was a car, I would definitely replace it.
Less than two hours to get everything off. It's an easy job, but oh my aching credit card. :o
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Ed , I don't know how you feel about getting the parts rebuilt, as long as the surfaces of the pressure plates aren't gouged or damaged deeply, rebuild cost is $200 including testing the diaphram spring, plus shipping to and from San Diego. I don't know if you read my experience of installing the rebuild that I had done. Looks like the shop put a friction lining a bit thicker than stock,and through off my clutch free-play adjustment. If you go with new parts, I think the diaphram spring is around $40-50.
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The pressure plates (one, anyway) were damaged some. But according to Snowbum, every freaking part in there EXCEPT the spring was upgraded after '81, even the clutch carrier aka flywheel. Sheesh. I don't know what can go wrong with that thing, mine looks fine as far as I can see. Yeah, if I take it of I'll block the crankshaft! ;D I have no problem with the rebuilding parts idea, it's just that mine came with inferior parts from the factory, so I'm probably better off replacing them with the current parts.
I actually think my spring is fine, but there should be a way to tell.
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Yeah, there is, measure the relaxed height.
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It would be easy to measure the relaxed height, but my book doesn't say what the height should be. So I haven't bothered yet.... I'll take it into the dealer tomorrow when I order the parts, he should have the numbers in some dusty little used book in the back of the shop.
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I have seen spring heights somewhere but cannot remember where. Sux getting old...
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It's 0.675". I'll probably just replace the silly thing from general principle, like I would in my car, but for a bit more money. My book shows relaxed heights for BMWs before 1981, but not for the modern ones.
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OK, I finished getting everything back together today. I ended up replacing the clutch carrier, spring, both pressure plates, and of course the clutch disk itself. Also new air filter and rear brake shoes. My new rear tire was not in Thursday when I stopped by so I'll stop and have it installed this week some time.
I made a tool to hold the fly wheel in place for removing and reinstalling the bolts out of plumber's tape. I enlarged two of the holes. One went over the upper right tranny/airbox mount stud; the other went over one of the old clutch bolts which I screwed back in for this purpose. It worked perfectly.
After adjusting my clutch rear lever, I still end up with more free play than I had before, but it's not hard to shift. The clutch doesn't disengage until I've pulled the lever back about an inch. I seem to remember reading something about this before, when somebody else upgraded all the clutch parts except the throw out bearing assembly, but I can't remember what the fix was. I'll look for it. The perceived hand effort is quite a bit lighter than it was before, I don't know why. It works for now, and I'll probably ride the bike to work a couple of days this week to make sure it's OK for the trip to Chief Joseph this coming Friday.
Mmm, sleepy now. G'night!
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Ed, I had this problem a few weeks ago, all I did was go to NAPA ( No Auto Parts Available) and got a replacement bolt ( I think it's an 8mmx1.25mm thread size) for the transmission adjuster bolt. I got one about 5 threads longer than the stock bolt. I havn't ridden the bike yet, so I don't know if it is a final fix or not, as I am still having problems getting my carb parts from a dealer in San Diego. But I noticed as well the effort to move the clutch lever is quite light.
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I just did my hundred mile commute today, and it shifts really well, even with the greater apparent free play. No grinding or hard shifting. I'll look into the different bolt, but for now it doesn't seem to be an issue. Riding it to Chief Joseph shouldn't be a problem. Now the back tire is in the back of my car to be taken to the shop for a new tire tomorrow, as the old one is way too worn for a 200+ mile ride into nowhere. The sad thing is I just noticed the back tire on my Triumph is pretty worn, too. How do these things sneak up on me like this?! The good thing is I'm wearing out tires.
I noticed that my idle was slower. I checked to make sure I hadn't plugged up that little vacuum line or anything, and it all looks good, so I just adjusted it back up to around 1100 rpms after I got home from work. I'm wondering if the fact that every component I installed was heavier and beefier than the stuff I took out added enough mass to do that. It sounds fishy to me. The bike also didn't seem to wind up the revs as quickly as before, though if the clutch was imperceptibly slipping then, that would explain it. Anyway, it seems good so far.
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That sounds good, Ed.
There is a new clutch in my future, I believe. Mine just turned 80,000 miles this weekend!
We had fun this weekend! [smiley=naughty.gif]
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Is that 80,000 on the clutch or on the bike? Or both, I guess. You shouldn't have to upgrade the flywheel, as yours should still have the old type heavy one. There's nearly two hundred bucks you're saving right there!
Good luck,
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Yes, both!