The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: chewy4x4 on July 29, 2011, 10:07:36 PM
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OK so if the 65 has 18" wheels and the rest of the BMW line up has 19" couldn't we make this work by changing up tire sizes? Also if the size didn't mater would our final drives straight bolt to the wire drums?
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The rear wheels on all the airheads are 18", so getting an 18" spoke rear wheel isn't that hard to fit on your R65 (Assuming you have a dual shock R65, if it is a monolever, you'll have to look at possibly a rear wheel from a fairly rare bike, the R80ST.
Likewise, you could possibly use the front wheel of an R80ST - I think those were 18" - or if not, use the hub from one and relace it to an 18" rim. The hubs of the earlier, spoke rimmed airheads are different and would require more tweaking of shims, axle diameters, rotor carriers, etc. It can be done, like anything, if you've got enough cash.
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The rear wheels on all the airheads are 18", so getting an 18" spoke rear wheel isn't that hard to fit on your R65 (Assuming you have a dual shock R65, if it is a monolever, you'll have to look at possibly a rear wheel from a fairly rare bike, the R80ST.
Likewise, you could possibly use the front wheel of an R80ST - I think those were 18" - or if not, use the hub from one and relace it to an 18" rim. The hubs of the earlier, spoke rimmed airheads are different and would require more tweaking of shims, axle diameters, rotor carriers, etc. It can be done, like anything, if you've got enough cash.
The mono R65s used 4bolt rear wheels.
The ST used a 3 bolt wheel.
That obviously won't work.
R80ST front wheel was 19" not 18.
The good thing is that a spoke rear wheel from any 74-> twin shock bmw will bolt right up.
On the front you may have to get an ST hub and have a 18" rim laced on.
OR just buy this wheel from BMW
36311240502. it's an 18 spoke rim listed on the R65 page of the MAX BMW fiche, as they were always an option from BMW.
The hub on that rim is the same hub as the ST and the G/S
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I have a dual shock. So the rear is easy, cool. The front couldn't we just use the 19"? Is there a front that would use the dual front disks I have?
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I've seen someone stick a 19" on the front of an R65 before. Depending on the tire, you'll quite likely have to modify the fork brace/fender mount for clearance. The hub widths aren't the same, so you'll have customization to do on the rotor mounts/disk carriers for your R65 disk brake. The taller front tire will alter your steering geometry and ground clearance, so the handling will be significantly changed, and probably not for the better. I'd either try to buy the BMW 18" spoked front wheel mentioned by wirewkr or else get an R80ST front wheel, toss the 19" hoop and lace an 18" hoop on the hub. Or, maybe you are looking to make your R65 handle a bit more like a kicked out chopper ;)
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OK the part at Max BMW is like $650. Couldn't the difference in the front tire be made up with a different tire selection? Also I have a San Jose fork brace on so Its a little higher already. I wonder if my local Airhead wrecker has so wheels?
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I'm pretty sure an R80ST front wheel will mount right up. The fender already sits pretty high so there's room.
As for the rear - it's true, any for the airheads will work. But realize the /5 rim is narrower.
I've been considering building some wire wheels for these bikes but don't know what to charge for them, or how much interest there'd be. I already built one with a stainless rim but with old non-stainless spokes just to see if it'd work. To get that one finished properly I'd have to order some stainless and replace them.
But I've been wanting to put wires on my LS for quite a while. Perhaps now's the time?
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Now is definitely the time!!!!
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I'd be very interested if the price was right and they were easily interchangeable. With the craze for all things "cafe" these days, and R65's being popular for conversions, I couldn't think of a better time.
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I'd definitely be interested in a set of wire wheels. I do have one question, however. Would there be any clearance issues with a twin brake conversion?
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I guess I'd better try installing the one I've set up. If I remember correctly, the deeper dish discs are needed - and a change in spacers. My LS has the shallower discs so I'll have to scrounge around for the deeper ones.
Considering the cost of all this stuff, a built wheel isn't cheap. An Excel rim is close to $200, spokes are another $80 or so, the hub?, and then there's the time assembling. If I were to build these I couldn't sell a front for less than $500 to $600. And that might be too cheap.
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That sounds more or less normal to me - I think of one went to Buchanons Spoke and Rim with your own hub and requested an alloy rim/stainless spoke setup to be built, you'd be out at least $500 per wheel.
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I am running a 19inch R80ST front wheel on my R65 twin shock.
The fork legs have to come up through the triple tree (yokes) half an inch to compensate other-wise it will ride like an orange county chopper - badly. Rear wheel needs no modification.
You can get a any R80/100 gs hub laced with the correct rim as well.
I am also running wires on my 1982 R100 - all that need to be changed there was the axle and the brake disk holders....
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R100
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WooHoo its Steve. Thanks Mate. That is the answer I wanted. I know it was more or less what everyone else said but in R65 cafe racers you are the definitive answer. So since I have y'all's attention New question. What about swapping to K100 forks? Could I then conceivably use a non R80st but a more common wire wheel? I assume that the reason every one is saying r80st is the hub width. Correct?
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Oh steve what is the rear fender in your cafe from?
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The are two front hub for wire wheels, the two rib hub and the 3 rib hub.
The three rib hub was fitted on all the old ate swinging caliper bikes
The two rib hub is required for all brembo equiped bikes as the spokes had to clear the calipers. The two ribbed hubs we fitted to all GS and ST models and any other model where wire wheels could be fitted as an option. So they are about, but an 18 or 19 inch wire wheel always attracts a premium.
I do no know any thing about K100 forks although I actually used to have a K100RS, but that was before my airhead days.
I have considered fitting an R65 yoke setup to my R100 though, but the R65 yokes are wider - i.e. they hold the fork legs further apart, and they have more offset, which will change you rake/trail angles. The rake and trail angles are the same as the larger airheads, but the R65 axle is in the centre of the fork and the R80/100 axle is on the front of the fork - this is why there is a difference in the yokes.
The fenders, I bought at a classic bike show and were a generic set for a BSA or some such bike. They were sold as aluminium blanks, but polished up okay.
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Hey, Steve, long time...
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Yes it has been a long time. I have been very busy.
The wife wanted a VW Camper last year and I am still rebuilding it - although at least it is running and on the road now - Its what you chaps would call a Vanagon and what I would call a rolling restoration. Not that I am restoring it - just making it usable.
The wife is also trying to get me to decorate the house, sort out the garden and generally trying to give me a stress related illness. Not to mention the 2 kids and the full time job....
I have also been trying to sail my classic dinghies, and have a Classic Merlin Rocket (1959) and a vintage National 12 (1948).
Biking has definately been taking a back seat this year.
The R65 is under a blanket in the garage and the R100 is only getting very occasional use...
Things have got to change.
Too many 'hobbies' and too little time.
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I would take the R100 hub and lace a 2.5 inch 18" rim to with Buchanan. Then you could have a properly fitted 100/90-18 tire on the front that you don't get with the stock 1.85 inch width rim.
I have a 1988 K100RS front end on with its 2.5-18 inch rim. Handles like a dream with the K100RS sport front forks and triple trees. Turns out the steering head bearing is the same part number as the R65!!!
The 2.5 inch rear rim is actually just the right size for the 4.00-18 or 110/90-18 rear tires that go on our bikes.
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Semper Regarding the K100rs front was it as simple as unbolt the r65 and bolt on the K? Also in regard to what steve just said the ability to find wire wheels would become easier with the K set up no? If I got a set of Brembos with the forks
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No I said I had no experience with wire wheels a K100 forks, so cannot comment. :-?
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Yes I understood that Steve. My question was directed toward the Forum in that instance. I was just deducing the fact that the K forks use Brembos so (i figure) ergo the use of the K forks would enable be to use the Wire wheels off of more than just the R80st.
Also it was said that all of the wheels form 74 on would work correct? I thought the front axle changed on the Airheads in 75. I could be and I probably am wrong.
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Chewy - wire wheels from 74-> can work on the REAR wheel position.
On the front wheel position, you have the limitations discussed above.
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Semper Regarding the K100rs front was it as simple as unbolt the r65 and bolt on the K? Also in regard to what steve just said the ability to find wire wheels would become easier with the K set up no? If I got a set of Brembos with the forks
The part numbers for the steering head bearings are the same. So yes you can un-bolt the R65 stuff and bolt on the the 1988 K100RS forks. What ever year you get you should go on the AScycles web site and make sure the steering head bearings are the same part number. Then it will work. The forks are longer than the R65 but I have found no reason to run the triple trees down the forks yet. I know of no wire wheel set up in the K100rs front ends but then I wasn't looking for wire wheels. I really wanted the wider tubeless alloy wheel and the thicker axel.
I was also looking for the same for to wheel axel relationship. The R65 has the axel on the bottom of the fork. I stayed away from K100 Forks that had axel on the front of the fork (like late model R100GS) although I was willing to try if the price was right.
But I had decided on what I wanted because I was tired of dealing with my wobble R65 front end - K100 forks with the axel on the bottom - complete. Then one night I was lurking on ebay and a set of complete forks -- Triple trees, forks, fork brace , fender, wheel, brake rotors, calipers and axel came up for a Buy it now Price of $400.00. I quickly hoped over to A&Scycle site to check the parts fisch for the steering head numbers. Then I went back and pounced on it. If I had bought all those bits from BMW I have no idea what it would have cost. Oh and I got a good Bridgestone BT45F 100/90V18 tire on it as well. All showed up for $75.00 shipping 4 days later. I hauled the whole kit and kaboodle over to Boxerworks and Nathan and Dean installed it for another $400.
The only downside to doing this is my stock R65 instument bracket while bolted in the top is tye wrapped at the bottom. This i can fix when I want to.
The other thing is that the K100RS font end has rubber isolators between the handle bars and the top tripple tree. Normally this is not a problem because the K100RS has low euro bars. My bars a 12inch pull backs. So now the bars move about (fore and aft). I have gotten used to this. But when somebody who hasn't ridden it gets on and tries it they get a shock the first time they hit the brakes.
Bennies - Razor sharp handling above 65mph rock steady all the way to 90mpg with my draggy Lufty fairing and heavy Givi bags. Oh and I have traded my ATE brake callipers for Brembos.
It took me a long time do decide what I wanted and then to hunt down kill it and bring it home. I tried everything to make the stock set up work better at speed but nothing worked. Not the Teliflex fork brace, not the progressive springs. The only thing that helped at all was tightning the rear pivot bolts to the max torque of its allowed range.
Actually that's not true. I didn't try the frame brace tube from below the steering head to behind the tranny. I also didn't try the San Jose rear swing arm brace. People I talked to (Eddie James for one) said that the frame brace didn't work. The said that the rear swing arm brace helped a bit but that it wasn't worth the money and time to tear everything apart and have it sent off and get it back. SO I went with changing the front end and scored bigtime. [smiley=bmw_smiley.gif]
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OK I now understand the ease and the possible complexity behind this swap. Thanks y'all. Now to add more to this thread Ill ask another question that might be harder to answer or it might be as simple as no cant happen.
In the cafe spirit of use what you can get and the modern cafe interpretation of use what it takes to make it look cool. Could I make a set of K75 wheels fit?
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<snip>
In the cafe spirit of use what you can get and the modern cafe interpretation of use what it takes to make it look cool. Could I make a set of K75 wheels fit?
Rhuogh? (I think I just popped a circuit breaker) :o
Scroll backwards though time on this web site for what you seek grasshopper...
http://www.bikeexif.com/
And then search the parts fisch here?
http://www.ascycles.com/
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?!?
Monolever/single sided swingarm rear wheel no worky on dual sided R65 chassis swingarm, unless you want to also customize rear subframe and swingarm ... in which case anything is possible. But, if you balk at the mere $600+ price tag for a BMW OEM 18" spoked front wheel, wait till you get the bill for a custom chassis build. 8-)
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If you opt for a K front end, I think any of the R100R, GS, R1100, 1150 hubs will work. It may even be possible to make the earlier airhead hub work, but have no idea what sort of bearings would work, or if they'll work at all. If using the cross-spoked hub (that's what the newer tubeless wheels are called) it is possible to lace in a standard non-tubeless rim.
You'll have to do some research cause I've never looked into axle diameters of the newer bikes, but it seems possible they're compatable.
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monolever, paralever airheads, and old K bikes (thru97) have a 25mm axle, oilheads and the like it is 20mm, (also URAL and /2, /3) etc.
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Well Semper Back I went and alas I found not what I wanted. I have decided that I will wait and find the hubs I need to get wire wheels on the forks I have (unless a complete front end off of a k75 comes up CHEAP). I still need a few things to make the 65 the way I envision it.
1. An R80 tank that will fit this bike without modification. (Suggestions)
2. Short mufflers and some pipe wrap. ( I have a lead on these)
3. Complete leather cafe seat. (I think I will be getting the one off eBay)
4. Rear sets (Omar's probably, unless anyone knows better)
Thinking about an old ducati style fairing. (But I don't know how it would look on our SWB bikes so maybe an r90 style)
5. The mikuni kit (This bike doesn't tour so no worries about elevation issues)
6. Older bubble style valve covers. (I think they look cooler)
It may seem sacrilegious to some but this bike begs me to make it look as fast as I feel on it. [smiley=bmw_smiley.gif] This bike turns heads But I want to make it turn more. ;)
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Wireworker, are you sure? I've never measured axles, but it doesn't make sense to me the ural would have a larger axle than the oil heads.
Shouldn't it be like this:
Airheads 1970-4 ----- 14mm
Airheads from 1975-84 ----- 17mm
Airheads, Ks, 85 on ------- 20mm
Oilheads ------------ 25mm
I have no idea what the Urals are, but can't imagine them being 25mm. I also don't know what size the /2 used, but suspect it's 14mm like the early airheads.
I think that's wise to watch for the correct wheel for your bike.
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Trust me Terry, I do this for a living.
They down-sized axles after 97 ish,
keep in mind they've done this before.
pre 70 was 20mm (except for the US forks in the last few years)
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Ok, I believe you - just wanted to make sure there were no mistakes.
Are you saying this is the way it maps out?
/2 ----------------------20mm?
Airheads 1970-4 ----- 14mm
Airheads from 1975-84 ----- 17mm
Airheads, Ks, 85 on ------- 25mm
Oilheads, urals ----------------------20mm