The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: bangpaul on July 10, 2011, 11:46:16 PM
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While fixing my front forks, a spring came off my centre stand. It was the only spring on there, but it looks like there used to be two. There are two little swing arms, but where the springs seemed to hook onto the actual stand there are just a pair of little metal nubs. I think whatever was welded on there has broken off, along with the other spring.
Since I've obviously got to fix this problem, I thought I might try and fix it properly. The stands on my R65 are probably my least favourite feature of the bike. The side stand leans over way too far, and the centre stand is a pain in the arse, both to get on and off.
Is it best to just replace the centre stand? In the meantime, how do the springs usually hook onto the actual stand? My manual isn't much help.
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Centre stands usually wear and suffer from going too far over centre which makes them a real pain to use particularly getting the bike off the stand. They can be repaired by building up the end stops with weld.
Mine was so transformed I regretted not having done it earlier.
I shimmed the side stand pivot to remove slop and that helped withe lean angle.
Should be several other threads on centre stand repairs if you do a search.
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1295894027/1#1
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I machined up a new bolt and bush for the sidestand. The factory setup has a threaded section of bolt inside the bush and this wore a mirror 'thread' into the inside of the bronze bush. The new bolt and bush took a lot of play out of the sidestand.
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There are two small hook like parts welded to the horizontal tube, from you description, they have departed the stand .
If you can get a later center stand, they are worth the putting on .
The original stand on my '81 broke last September, replaced it with one from an '82, what a difference .
Only problem with the newer stands, the bikes that had these stand installed , have a different up stop, whereas the '81 used rubber bumpers in the ends of the tubes to contact the frame tube .
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My stand is driving me bananas, I think I am going to just replace it rather than trying to fix, I believe its the worn end pieces (older laminated ends) are the problem, they look kinda worn and concave shape, just one worry is that there seems to be a bit of gouging on the frame stops also.
here is one stand end
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1829.jpg&hash=45887eaa6c9f7d3c93c94c67b4d1d7c254e25a8f)
and corresponding frame stop (slight gouging towards bottom of pic)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1838.jpg&hash=c56e1d961abf59ad8147bdc831157bbfa7001ce5)
BTW James Sherlock BMW in the UK have seriously better prices than either Motobins or Motorworks for most things
He does not have an online shop but he has the full parts list and prices in pdf, just confirm the price and then call with CC details, nice to deal with and fast and reasonable delivery costs, e.g.
Price for centre stand (Vat incl):
Sherlock £69.60
Motorworks £92.62
Motobins £99.95
Similar price ratio on most things between these guys, I got my rear tyre (ME 77) from Sherlocks last week for £84.96, Motorworks wanted £115.69 , Motobins don't offer Metz
No connections with Sherlocks, just a satisfied customer
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I scored a later model center stand for the POS unit on my 1981 R65. Note the larger foot pad that really helps getting the bike "up n' over."
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FCtrStandLift02.jpg&hash=8747ccda66ef44361307703db80c5721b5ffd160)
These are the loops where the springs attach.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FCtrStand02.jpg&hash=ecbefbb512a0ce216849b2b1d0f2ea25d2edde61)
The '81's center stand retract springs attached to a sheet metal tang. The tang pivoted on a stud welded to a frame cluster. Look closely. The tang is just partially visible behind the frame member.
In my case, the tang pivot was so close to the engine case that I had to cut it away rather than lift it off the stud. The newer design center stand uses a longer spring that simply hooks over the stud; thereby eliminating the tang.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FCtrStand01.jpg&hash=88c63d582e9e1b7fa6a2866faebe211925d79584)
I found the replacement stand on eBay. They show up fairly regular.
Another point to consider; if the rear shocks on the bike are shorter than stock, the effort to grunt the bike onto the center stand is amplified. The progressives on the '81 were shorter than OEM. The new, correct length Hagons, plus the revised design stand in better condition, made all the difference.
Hope this helps you.
Monte
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As usual, I now feel comprehensively informed. I'll have another look at it over the weekend, and make a decision in the coming weeks.
Thanks again for all the advice.
And cheers to RSMike for the "James Sherlock BMW" tip. I'll see what their freight costs are like next time I need some parts.
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Just spotted this stand on eBay. It's the "good" design; same as I retro fitted to my 1981 R65.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-R65-R80-Center-Main-Stand-/330587182485?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf8881595#ht_500wt_728
This one has both bearing pivots. Looks a bit nicer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/83-BMW-R65-R-65-CENTER-STAND-4-/350477358079?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item519a1413ff#ht_563wt_939
They're everywhere, they're everywhere...
Just for comparison, this is the "hernia" model.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Center-Stand-R65-/370507156734?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5643f28cfe#ht_500wt_728
Monte
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Just spotted this stand on eBay. It's the "good" design; same as I retro fitted to my 1981 R65.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-R65-R80-Center-Main-Stand-/330587182485?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf8881595#ht_500wt_728
This one has both bearing pivots. Looks a bit nicer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/83-BMW-R65-R-65-CENTER-STAND-4-/350477358079?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item519a1413ff#ht_563wt_939
They're everywhere, they're everywhere...
Just for comparison, this is the "hernia" model.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Center-Stand-R65-/370507156734?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5643f28cfe#ht_500wt_728
Monte
Wow, considering that last one is "the hernia" model, as you so aptly put it Monte, he's asking a lot.
I went ahead and ordered a new one from Sherlock's today
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All three are substantially more expensive than I paid for mine through an eBay auction.
Did you include the two bushings and countersunk bolts that pass through the stand's uppers? I discovered marked wear in my originals. The retract springs are different, too.
Monte
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I have the one like you and then the "Hernia" model on the Parts Bike, I was going to switch to it since looks in better shape, but am I being instructed otherwise?
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Did you include the two bushings and countersunk bolts that pass through the stand's uppers? I discovered marked wear in my originals. The retract springs are different, too.
Monte
Yes, I ordered "Main stand bolts & spacers" as well, hopefully spacers = bushings
Oops, just saw you mentioned springs also that might be a problem then.
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Did you include the two bushings and countersunk bolts that pass through the stand's uppers? I discovered marked wear in my originals. The retract springs are different, too.
Monte
Yes, I ordered "Main stand bolts & spacers" as well, hopefully spacers = bushings
Oops, just saw you mentioned springs also that might be a problem then.
If you keep the OEM sheet metal shackles, the "hernia" springs may well fit.
Monte
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I have the one like you and then the "Hernia" model on the Parts Bike, I was going to switch to it since looks in better shape, but am I being instructed otherwise?
The ends on the "hernia" models seem to wear out pretty quick ( well relatively speaking for these bikes) due to their construction, My stand looks great also, just doesn't work great!, seems like the advise would be to stick with the later model stand.
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I have, indeed, had 3 hernia operations since buying my R65 (in 1980).
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I have the one like you and then the "Hernia" model on the Parts Bike, I was going to switch to it since looks in better shape, but am I being instructed otherwise?
Learn at the Master's knee, Grasshopper. [smiley=shocked2.gif]
Monte
I have, indeed, had 3 hernia operations since buying my R65 (in 1980).
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I have the one like you and then the "Hernia" model on the Parts Bike, I was going to switch to it since looks in better shape, but am I being instructed otherwise?
mmm... I should make a stand about the old stand
I bow to the experience of those who have the superior newer stand and I'm sure it's wonderful.
However I beg to differ that the older stand need be hernia inducing. Mine was that way inclined until I repaired it and now it's as easy for this 10 [size=8]1/2[/size] stone weakling to put on and off the stand as any bike I've ever owned. In case I was deluded about this I just went out to the garage in my carpet slippers and took the bike off and put it back on it's stand just for fun. Yep it was easy so to answer your question it is not necessarily mandatory to have the newer stand.
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point taken Barry, you have obviously done a good job fixing your stand, however as I have ordered the new one now, I'm thinking ahead to doing the job &,I have a question about lifting the bike to remove the old stand.
I normally use my little bike lift under the center stand to lift the bike when jobs need doing
It goes crossways under the folded stand like so:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1844.jpg&hash=99c624d837d46fa7afbc9bdefdb8d5d08ab9c0ae)
obviously I can't lift it this way when I need to remove the stand.
Would it be safe to place the lift length-ways under the sump with a block of wood and lift under the sump?
or what do others do /recommend?
Cheers
Mike
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Mike, If you'll cut a bit of lumber to fit, perhaps drill a recess for the oil drain plug, you'll be fine. I did this and used a hydraulic bottle jack for the lift. Raised it just enough for the removal / refit.
Think safety. If you can keep a tire on the ground, secure it from rotating. Strap the front brake lever or put the trans in low gear. Don't allow that scooter to fall. I'd hate to see your beautiful R65 nicked. Oh... nor you, too, Mike.
Monte
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Just any FYI, the foot peg was broken off my bike when I bought it. It's now got a 3 inch threaded bolt JB Weld'ed into the stand. Cost me nuthin'
;D
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Every time I have removed my center stand I have used the side stand as primary support. A little awkward, but it can be done.
I "fixed" my hernia stand by having SS plate welded onto the bottom and tapered at the front.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F63244796%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=8ec05455544db5e4739a53bb2da3d2d582a1a9c2)
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I too removed the main stand with the bike supported on the side stand. I put a couple of 2" planks under the wheels and something a thicker under the side stand so the bike stood a little more vertical. I rigged up a couple of cargo straps to fixings in the garage wall so the bike couldn't fall over while I was working on test fitting the main stand.
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It was a rainy afternoon here so I decided to get at it and remove the stand, even though the new one has not yet arrived, I didn't use the sump as a lifting point in the end, instead used some car support stands under the pegs and crash bars:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1847.jpg&hash=6ef4e75fb865b7ed638f2b28467f7395ffea1d38)
I have now removed the stand, but about those "sheet metal shackles" as Monte called them, that the springs were attached to, is there some knack to removing them?, I could not see how to remove them
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... but about those "sheet metal shackles" as Monte called them, that the springs were attached to, is there some knack to removing them?, I could not see how to remove them
Our 'lustrus potentate Justin M sez his would simply lift off over the 'keyhole' opening. Huh...
Well, the studs on the frame cluster on both my R65s are so close to the crankcase that you can't slide a red hair between 'em.
Fortunately, the shackles are made of a soft steel/tin. Aviation snips cut almost to the stud pivot opening, then a pair of pliers twisted the piece until it fatigued and broke away. Be sure you've got the new, longer springs before you chop off the existing spring anchors.
Monte
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Stand arrived today ordered Friday from Sherlock's, so as well as being more competitive on price than the other UK parts guys he also seems quicker.
First two things I noticed
(1) The ends of the newer type stand are still a laminated construction, so I guess ultimately are prone to the same wear as the original, so reinforces Barry's point that a repaired original is probably as good as a new one (except for the handy foot pad on the newer type).
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2Fstand2.jpg&hash=7efce0384a566577dbf30f9fb4349e68e66bdb88)
(2) Lining the two stands up with their feet aligned, the new one is noticeably higher (could be as much as 5mm).
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2Fstand3.jpg&hash=8a7341fa31b3cd75175d5e87057caffa4f2d62e6)
and onto those curious shackles:
... but about those "sheet metal shackles" as Monte called them, that the springs were attached to, is there some knack to removing them?, I could not see how to remove them
Our 'lustrus potentate Justin M sez his would simply lift off over the 'keyhole' opening. Huh...
Well, the studs on the frame cluster on both my R65s are so close to the crankcase that you can't slide a red hair between 'em.
Fortunately, the shackles are made of a soft steel/tin. Aviation snips cut almost to the stud pivot opening, then a pair of pliers twisted the piece until it fatigued and broke away. Be sure you've got the new, longer springs before you chop off the existing spring anchors.
Monte
I even tested one of the newer springs with the shackles in place as there were three possible springs to order, and there was some doubt about which one was correct.
The good news is I got the right ones (p/n 114583 on Sherlock's 2V list).
One thing I don't have in my arsenal of tools is a good heavy duty snips, however I found with a little bit of patience and repeated bending, our old friend metal fatigue got the job done:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2Fstand4.jpg&hash=b3223acdf2ded715adc2d389ef2b44a96414de1c)
Job done!, :)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2Fstand1.jpg&hash=9bf9d076e776b3fbf3b0eeab9593579dbb2e790e)
Yes, I know the springs are on opposite ways, but it works and when they are new they are bloody hard to snap into place. Another skinned knuckle to prove it!
First time I took the bike off the new stand, I was so used to the old one that I pushed too hard, I had to run after the bike to hold it , ;D
Also its nice to see both wheels just clear of the ground at last.
Highly recommend this job to anyone suffering with a worn stand, its a simple job and makes a big difference.
Thanks all for your help and advice, and to Paul for starting the thread which pushed me to sort out this problem.
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Job done!,
Well maybe not quite......, the old stand's peg kinda used the clip and bolt that joins the silencers to the exhaust header (on the left) as a stop, and I never worried too much about that
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2Foldstandstop.jpg&hash=49b1542f57a0ec4c7c69c8567dad174ea6436b59)
however the new rounded peg contacts the silencer just behind the clip, and with the new springs bangs rather loudly against it, I would prefer some kind of rubber stop somewhere, Not sure if there was one originally and its gone missing or there never was one, Whats the advice?
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however the new rounded peg contacts the silencer just behind the clip, and with the new springs bangs rather loudly against it, I would prefer some kind of rubber stop somewhere, Not sure if there was one originally and its gone missing or there never was one, Whats the advice?
I'm not sure that a bumper was ever fitted from new on the older bikes. Certainly the parts fiches don't show one and I can't see where it would fit anyway.
On my original stand the left hand leg is quite a bit longer than the right which must have been a deliberate design so that the rubber end plug acts as a stop when it contacts the lower frame tube. I added a piece of rubber cut from a thick rubber hose to the frame tube in an attempt to further cushion the action and stop the stand clanking when it springs up.
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Hi all, been AWOL for a while from this forum, but I'm still above ground and still riding my R65 everyday.
I decided to have a "mental health day" instead of work, and I attacked my centre stand today with the welder. Mine is the old "hernia" style but a nut had come loose and eventually worn a chamfer on the stand stops. I welded it back and added a bit of meat, then filed it down square. At first I thought you beauty its better than ever, but discovered i had too much weld and a small knock would move the bike forward off the stand. Not good when you have young children who love your bike to bits. So after a couple of hours of fitting and refitting the stand it all seems good.
Previously my front wheel was on the ground, now I have about 2 inches in the air.
What is standard for the centre stand down? the front touching the ground or not? As a fat bastard i have the rear shocks on the hardest setting, because they are always carrying full load with me on.
Actually its always overloaded.
cheers
John
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Yes, I know the springs are on opposite ways, but it works and when they are new they are bloody hard to snap into place. Another skinned knuckle to prove it!
i found it easier to connect the springs first and then wrench the holes into place and slide the bolt through. But then I tend to do things arse about sometimes.
;)
John
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At first I thought you beauty its better than ever, but discovered i had too much weld and a small knock would move the bike forward off the stand. Not good when you have young children who love your bike to bits. So after a couple of hours of fitting and refitting the stand it all seems good.
I had the very same experience after adding too much weld and spent a long time with the angle grinder and trial refitting before I made it stable enough. I actually left it on the "slightly unstable" side on the assumption it would settle in a bit but it hasn't. After the repair my bike has also moved to sitting on the back wheel instead of the front but it's finely balanced and depends on the slope of the ground.
Previously my front wheel was on the ground, now I have about 2 inches in the air. What is standard for the centre stand down? the front touching the ground or not?
Good question. I wonder if Bob Roller can remember when his bike was new.
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... I wonder if Bob Roller can remember when his bike was new.
Ouch! That's gotta hurt, eh, Bob? [smiley=ROTFLMAO.gif]
From one geezer to another,
Monte
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Ouch! That's gotta hurt, eh, Bob?Smiley
I'm sure Bob can remember 30 years back but will he remember that bit of detail.
I obviously can't remember yesterday because I got it wrong. My bike sits on the front wheel after the repair when it used to sit on the back.
Many of us are old geezers here abouts or knocking on that door.
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With the bike on the stand, the front should be in the air a couple inches. Of course, if the balance is off, the rear will be in the air instead. :-)
I did the same with my 84 R100 - left the repair a bit proud with the idea it would eventually settle a bit. Took a long time, but now it doesn't come off the stand by itself. For a long time I strapped the stand to the header cross over just to make sure it didn't come down on its own.