The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: RSMike on August 05, 2011, 08:09:15 AM
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OK, another embarrassment that I have left this so long to sort, the PO routed my throttle cables outside the frame.
They are just partially hidden under the tank
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1897.jpg&hash=6054bce22a39299882103e4b349a82d2f80f92d0)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1898.jpg&hash=b8b781647b3602488ee598be012bee6fa252182c)
Obviously not a good arrangement, my only lazy excuse is they seem to work ok like this, :-[, but I know they need to be routed correctly for a number of reasons.
So as the forecast is predicting yet another rainy weekend, I think I will tackle the job, so my question is what is the correct original routing, pictures would be nice if anyone happens to have them, but descriptive english is also very acceptable, :)
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I can't say that mine are in the original route, but I think they are.
If it matters, I have the Euro bars.
Just click on this picture and it will take you to a small gallery with a couple of other pictures.
Beneath the pictures you can adjust the size of the image for detail.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F136985138%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=74a43ccc0dfb8f165d8ae7c63ff7b5bcfac3b075) (http://www.pbase.com/tomfarr/cable_routing)
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Keep in mind, Mike, that smooth routing is more important than exactly matching what you may find from others.
You might discover your cables may be longer or shorter or perhaps a PO routed the left throttle cable to the right carb or vice versa... the two lower cables from the junction tube are different lengths- at least mine are.
Shoot for easy movement of the inner cable plus a straight-in shot to the carb's cable adjuster. I recommend not using cable ties/zip ties to tightly hold throttle cables to the frame. A loose loop for routing "guidance" is fine- remember, the handlebars can "adjust the cable length" every time you steer. That throttle input might just shoot you across the pub's parking lot!
Yeah, I can see why you'd want to tidy up those droopy cables.
Rainy weekend? Email me about 2-3 inches of drizzle. My weeds are thirsty.
Monte
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I have to say your cables don't look right as they come out of the twist grip. My throttle cables go from the twistgrip to the far side of the triple clamp then down under the headstock but above the first cross tube then off under the tank either side.
At the carb end I use a length of heat shrink sleeve to stiffen the cable where it enters the adjuster which helps to keep the cables vertical.(http://)
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Thanks for the pictures Rob, very helpful, I started the job, hit a problem, and reading Monte's words now they prove prophetic.
I think there is a reason the PO routed the cables the way he did and its because they are too short to follow the correct route.
I discovered Anton Largiader has (another) very useful page on BMW cables:
http://www.largiader.com/articles/cables/
The cables I have are the ones ending 236 612, i.e 1007mm overall length, this part no. is listed as being for /5 to /7 with low bars, though it has the same spec as the 237 691 listed for pre 81 R65 with low bars.
Anyway when I tried routing the cables like Rob's (and some other routing's) the cables were too short at the carbs.
I never really confirmed it as I have nothing to compare with, but looking at pics of other bikes on here ( e.g. boycies)I think my bike has high bars, I remember some of you guys commented on the bars first time I posted a picture saying they looked high.
Here is a clearer shot of them:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1900.jpg&hash=1ccced5a653ae92974bce83c43806292667e07ce)
So looks like for now I will have to revert to the "short" routing and source correct cables, i.e. 237 692 or 236 613
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Roger those high bars, Mike. US specification but God knows why. R65s need Euro spec low handlebars. IMHO... which, like the US stock market, ain't always worth a plugged nickel.
Monte
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You might discover your cables may be longer or shorter or perhaps a PO routed the left throttle cable to the right carb or vice versa... the two lower cables from the junction tube are different lengths- at least mine are.
RSMike has no junction tube. If you look at his picture again, you will see it has two cables coming from the throttle control. And it is a 1980.
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You might discover your cables may be longer or shorter or perhaps a PO routed the left throttle cable to the right carb or vice versa... the two lower cables from the junction tube are different lengths- at least mine are.
RSMike has no junction tube. If you look at his picture again, you will see it has two cables coming from the throttle control. And it is a 1980.
OK, that explains it, I was scratching my head as to what a junction tube is. When I had both cables off the carbs they both looked to be identical lengths to the point that I got them mixed up and could not tell one from the other, just guessed on the refitting, gave the bike a test run and seems ok.
Roger those high bars, Mike. US specification but God knows why. R65s need Euro spec low handlebars. IMHO... which, like the US stock market, ain't always worth a plugged nickel.
Monte
OK, so now you have me thinking do I get new bars or new throttle cables, :), I might just mull over that for a while before I do anything
Monte, it is comforting though, to see that the US economy has some similar problems to the Irish one, ;), the correction is rather painful here but has to be done.
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The low bars definitely give you a more sporting stance. I love them!
But you need long-stem mirrors, or bar-end mirrors. The long-stem in black are near-impossible to find anymore. Chrome is still easily sourced, I believe - if you can stand it. :)
(Black is faster! ;) )
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So for low bars, which on this page would you go for :-/:
http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=20&Ct=OA&SbCt=BA_15_20_OA_20
I am thinking the second ones, 55mm = 2.16 inch rise?
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So for low bars, which on this page would you go for :-/:
http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=20&Ct=OA&SbCt=BA_15_20_OA_20
I am thinking the second ones, 55mm = 2.16 inch rise?
The price is certainty attractive.
I would be concerned about clearances, though, most notably between the inside-bottom of the brake master cylinder casting and the right fork leg-top; and the turn-signal switch and fuel tank at full-lock.
Too bad the 75mm have such an outrageous price.
Motobins has a 80mm rise handlebar for only £29.75 +VAT (Part No. 61012)
You might check out James Sherlocks - Tel: 01769 574350 - some of the U.K. contingent have good things to say about them.
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ok, thanks Rob, hadn't considered that, must do some measurements, but yes the Motobins 8cm do look good.
I am using James Sherlock for nearly all my parts now now, however on bars, he seems sadly lacking, just offering standard rise original bars at UK£117
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I have the original euro bars with a 55mm rise and clearance is tight but the only time I have a problem is when removing the fork top plug for filling with fork oil. I just need to loosen the perch clamp and rotate the lever assembly up a bit. Should be no other problems if the pattern ones are a faithful copy.
If it was me changing the bars I would go for something an inch or so higher than the euro bars. I would think there is probably enough slack in the throttle cables to accommodate an 80mm rise provided they are no wider than stock.
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Thanks Barry, that is good to know, I have not quite decided whether to change yet or not, One consideration is I am a shorty (5'7") so maybe the high bars are better, though I guess I will not know unless I try.
Another consideration is cables, looking at some previous threads on the subject today, and there was an opinion that the brake line from the lever might need to be changed for a shorter version. (arrowed)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1913.jpg&hash=a22f8d2bf8f3dbea6139264d5e47e18c51b0dbde)
I'm thinking its position is mostly just dropping so the difference in length is rather small, hoping I might get away with not changing it?
At least going on my throttle cables whichever PO went to high bars didn't change cables, from the angles of electric cables, it looks like these were not changed either.
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There is no difference in the cables for the electrical switches on the handlebars.
On the low bars, they just loop them around to take up the slack.
Low bars:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F98334414%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=45dd46bca5a0ade0eaa10f3cef9c9d82fa457373) (http://www.pbase.com/tomfarr/image/98334414/original)
click for larger image
High bars:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F73696284%2Foriginal.jpg&hash=fc3b36afa7f01d50ade206ba94913b8ede52861c)
The top picture is of my bike. I had to make a new main ground after my front coil mount broke off at the welds to the frame. The coil clamps carried the main ground connection. ::)
ALL '78-'80 R65/R45's will have this failure at some point in their lives.
'81 and later R65's had a different coil arrangement, so the ground point was moved.
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One consideration is I am a shorty (5'7") so maybe the high bars are better, though I guess I will not know unless I try.
The euro bars will certainly have you leaning forward. I'm 5' 10" and they had me leaning a little more than I liked which is why I suggested the slightly higher bars.
This is another story and I don't recommend anyone attempt it without the right kit. I bent mine to move them up 1" and back 1" Doesn't sound much but made a big difference to me.
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Chalk it up Rob, I have had the front coil failure, patched up the bracket, and made a new earth connection in exactly the same point(thanks to following what another poster on this site did, who probably had it handed down from you, :)
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One consideration is I am a shorty (5'7") so maybe the high bars are better, though I guess I will not know unless I try.
The euro bars will certainly have you leaning forward. I'm 5' 10" and they had me leaning a little more than I liked which is why I suggested the slightly higher bars.
OK, based on this and Rob's earlier input, it looks like the Motobins 8cm rise bars may be the safest bet.
The one slight concern I have still is the span, the current span on my high bars seems to be about 720mm, If I shorten that to 640mm with the motobins bars will I run into trouble with the brake line?
So one other option are these bars at BMW Bayer
http://www.bmwbayer.de/Handlebars-low-in-chrome-R2V-R90S-models1.html
They have a wide span ( 750mm) but are low rise ( 55mm)
Still leaning towards the Motobins bars as the extra rise should allow some extra pullback :-/
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will I run into trouble with the brake line?
It will certainly be easier than going the other direction!
You may need to eliminate the metal bracket that holds the brake line to the handlebar clamps, though.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F64538398%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=629cf9ce5dff92c3d460cb2c7952caece882860d)
I did, when I put in my 1/2" home-made risers. I had a machine shop make them (http://www.pbase.com/tomfarr/image/133714304/original) from a pair of top clamps I got from a generous member of our forum, here. They were from a K75 (same part # as our bikes). I won't embarrass myself by revealing what the machine shop charged me... :-[
Why the risers, you ask? To help with clearance issues with my Heinrich leg shields.
Wouldn't be a problem with high bars.
But the bottom line is, you could probably have a custom line made up locally for less than what the handlebars will cost. Steel-braided, even!
And there is no reason you need to stay with the tapered brake line fittings. Apparently banjo-type will work also. I didn't realize the post '80 bikes had the distribution casting (where the pre '81 bikes have the hydraulic brake light switch). Then you could ditch that upper metal 'U'-shaped line and have a lot more flexibility.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realoem.com%2Fbmw%2Fdiagrams%2Fq%2Fh%2F7.png&hash=e8098003cf180ae892ca44466672a26ebad483f2)
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The one slight concern I have still is the span, the current span on my high bars seems to be about 720mm, If I shorten that to 640mm with the motobins bars will I run into trouble with the brake line?
OK, so I was right to be concerned about this, I got the Motobins bars with the 8cm rise, but "no way Jose" with the current brake line, in the picture the right side controls are not even in far enough, My current brake line looks to be about 225mm, I think I need something more like 145mm, the real issue is the width of the new bars rather than the rise.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1950.jpg&hash=c8f5a2d7debc04de69c6c324c0ffee40cc885a63)
So back to the high bars for now, one problem I discovered in the process is that the left side control assembly is cracked, I assume because someone over tightened:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1953.jpg&hash=92e309cfe46eda7033f210e97b27609dc554513b)
it seemed to go back on OK, and I was careful not to over tighten, but I better start looking out for a replacement, new ones are rather expensive
One of the reasons I was going for low bars is I decided to try the small Emgo fairing and I had surmised low bars would be best, however I decided to go ahead and try it anyway with the high bars, It fits OK, and now I am wondering if in fact the low bars might not fit so well, with the narrow width, the brake reservoir might make contact.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1976.jpg&hash=db6d5f9ec78037a1244d7f381b1a2a894c5b4b72)
I'll post separately on the fairing fitting on my screen thread
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Did you by chance have a small triangular shaped in cross section piece of metal about 1 cm long when you removed the control housing?
It keeps you from cracking the cast metal housing when you tighten up the retaining screws .
Commonly referred to as a wedge, not available from BMW anymore .
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The other thing that can crack the control assemblies is trying to force them onto 7/8" bars which are slightly over size at 22.23 mm. Your new bars will be 22mm but what size were the old ones.
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Did you by chance have a small triangular shaped in cross section piece of metal about 1 cm long when you removed the control housing?
:), That would be this guy:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1956.jpg&hash=c9559d4eec0665decd6d4dde8c619b3b0ba5b510)
It fell out on the floor and I scratched my head as to what the hell it was for but eventually figured it out, though I was still wondering if it was meant to be there or something someone had added to work around any looseness caused by the crack, so good to know it is meant to be there.
I didn't notice or think to look of there was one on the right side assembly?
Your new bars will be 22mm but what size were the old ones.
Yes just measured the new bars and they are 22 exactly, funnily enough the old ones are reassuring up at 21.5, but 30 year old bike, who knows what other bars may have been on it