The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: montmil on August 02, 2011, 02:28:21 PM
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Is anyone running the Sylvania H6024 sealed beam headlight in their R65?
The reflector in my 1981 R65 headlamp is becoming pretty non-reflective. Looking for an easy upgrade in light output without over stressing the OEM electrical sysytem.
The H6024 specs say it is a 7.03-inch diameter. Ought to fit OK. The three male spades on the lamp look like plug n' play as to the R65's bulb socket.
Thoughts? Experiences? Gracias,
Monte
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How about an LED replacement if your worried about power.....
Lou
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What us Brits really need is a simple adaptor ring allowing fit of the standard UK 7-inch light unit. All kinds of alternatives are available, even a new version of the old Lucas Le Mans (if you are in the mega-rich category). The Cibie unit with concave front lens was very good, not sure if it's still available - at least the lens stayed clean I recall!
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How about an LED replacement if your worried about power.....
Lou
The Sylvania H6024 pulls but 40 watts so the power draw is not a concern.
What's interested me in the replacement is that the H6024 is a one-piece, sealed beam headlight with a good light pattern on both high and low beam.
Not to mention the $10.00 price at the local WalMart.
May give it a shot.
Monte
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Monte, this one is even cheap enough for you!!!
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1228860638
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I don't recall whom on the list I bought one of the lamps you noted, but I just could not bring myself to grinding on the headlight trim ring.
I thought about it, but the replacement cost of a new ring is huge! One of my R65s has a perfect ring while the other has only a slight ding. Even the dinged one could be repaired and re-chromed for pocket change compared to the $$$ demanded by BMW for a new replacement.
The H6024 requires three locating "nibs" be sanded off- using the belt sander- before it fits into an unmodified BMW ring.
I'm off to WallyWorld today. If this works out, I'll post up a thread.
Monte
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I use one Monte!!!
Of course, that's in my Windjammer fairing.
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I use one Monte!!! Of course, that's in my Windjammer fairing.
Windjammer? Is that one of them there fairing things I see in the Cruiser magazines? ;)
Bought the H6024 a W-M but it wasn't ten bucks. $8.74.
Right now, it's 108°F in my backyard and 115° in my shop. Tomorrow morning early I'll fit the lamp.
Almost 1700 beer call... What the hey. In four minutes, it'll be Happy Hour on the east coast. [smiley=beerchug.gif]
Too damn hot!
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I would bet a standard "E Code" 7 inch round European light from Cibe or Hella is far better than the typical US made "SAE APPROVED" sealed beam, and the two interchange. Marshal at one time made a 7 inch with two reflectors and bulbs inside it, one for high and the other for low. THAT was a headlight. You see the unit on endurance racers in th elate 60's and 70's. You might try googling Dan Stern Lighting on the net. He doesn't sell junk and has most of the real non" JC and the Boys" stuff.
The H4 bulb and the standard US 7 inch (and 5x7 ) dual beam lamps use the same socket.
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but I just could not bring myself to grinding on the headlight trim ring
No cajones! These H4 units were specified as direct replacements for a sealed-beam headlight so I would think the ring would need to be modified for one of them as well.
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Got up early to beat the heat and moved into the shop to see what I could see.
A belt sander made quick work of smoothing off the three locating "bumps" on the front face of the headlight. Safety goggles and a big mask plus a large fan kept the glass dust away from me.
Pulled off the OEM headlight and rim assembly, disconnected the electrics, popped off the keeper clips and extracted the lamp.
The H6024 dropped right into place. Installed the clips, plugged into the headlight socket and powered up. We gots lights.
Then the elephant in the shop walked in... The lower retaining clip inside the headlight nacelle would not fit. No way. No how. Rim flange on the H6024 is too thick. Rats.
Good news is the H6024 is the same brand and size as in the Cabriolet's grille so the lamp went into the VW parts storage. A $7.48 experiment was worth the knowledge gained.
So, unless there's another niffty n' neat way to secure the trim ring to the bucket, I'll continue rolling with the Bosch lamp, for now.
Did get in a fairly pleasant ride this A.M.
Monte
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The three bumps are for an aiming machine. The pattern on those sealed beam lamps was so bad that the common procedure used in Europe of looking at ithe pattern projected on a wall didn't work. Many of the European Code H4 lamps have little U shaped mounting points atttached to a very thin metal rim for purposes of making them interchangable with glass lamps. Getting rid of the mounting points is easy with a Dremel. The result will probably look just like the rim on the lamp you wish to replace. As I gracefully age, and need better lighting, I find that it is harder and harder to ADD fog and driving lights to plastic front cars, and the wimpy "fog" lamp decoratuons on most new vehicles are a joke. Factored into my next car buy will be a good hard look at light mounting opportunites. May have to buy some kind of SVU thing which will accept an OEM of aftermarket light bar.
Bit of trivia, when the Fed Nannies were busy enforcing the "NO NON-SEALED BEAM" regulations for cars, making "Grey Market" importers, for example, PULL the expensive European lamps from high end European cars and replace them with JUNK (sometimes leaving the pulled lamps in the trunk, hint hint) the NANNIES were ADVOCATING the use of the same lamps in US motorcycles. One could buy European H4 units in many imported car shops "for 'off road' and MOTORCYCLE street use only" You can guess where a LOT of them ended up. My first pair of 7 inch "EC" lamps went into a 71 Volvo in
1972. Had them in all my later cars until the "aero" headlight revolution made it impossible.
Take a look at Dan Stern's site, if only to see what is availible. You might even send him an email describing your plight. He does some "custom work" I can't see, given the care we lavish on these bikes, not having a GOOD headlight.
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Come to think of it, I sent a older Guzzi riding friend to my favorite parts store back in the 80s because he couldn't see much with the 2 dollar 7 inch US sealed beam the generous folks had installed in his rather expensive bike. He bought an E Code Hella lamp with a 55/60 bulb and it dropped right in. He was so pleased he came by the house just to show me. BTW, monti, you are lucky, and could install E Code lamps in your car. The improvement will please you, AND, since the E Codes are METAL, rather than plastic, you can stickum 55/100'or 80/100 bulbs in them instead of the 55/60 (low/high watts) without melting anything (but your harness - so check that out) Improving a harness is an easy DIY, but Stern sells them.
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Constellation: I think all you need so is grind off the three U shaped pieces on the back of a standard E Code. Take a look at one. Then you have your choice of a bunch of good European stuff. As I recall, your pattern is different for RHD. Seems to me there is something you need to stick on Brit lamps when driving in Europe. I have seen quick climps of them on Top Gear.
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Lou, LEDs just don't have the onions yet. Cetainly not in a 7 inch round lamp replacement. There are some factory installations on za new German cars but so far as I know there is nothing in LED which will equal an H4 low beam. Now, "HID" lamps draw a bit less power but none of them are designed (no matter what they say) to work with a lens set up for a halogen bulb. Big can of worms. Again, Dan Stern Lighting's site tells ya all about the problems.
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Lou, LEDs just don't have the onions yet. Cetainly not in a 7 inch round lamp replacement.
They are selling plug in units that just replace the bulb, i was looking at them last time i was at the shop, i will get more info when i call again.
Lou
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The Marchal lamp I mentioned was called the Marchal Amplilux. Cibe makes something called the "Biode" whcy may be similar. Both 7 inch and all metal. Hella, and the German version of Lucas, (Bosch)- I didn't know there were TWO Princes of Darkness) continue to make the 7 inch H4.
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Thanks for the Dan Stern site. Great info.
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If you have a bike with a marginal charging system, LED tail light and turn signal replacements work well and will save enough alternator output to be worthwhile. Good ones, like those from "SuperBright Leds" (google) provide plenty of light in bright red or amber. One can also replace gauge lighting with their leds and get brighter lighting without melting plastic parts. They also turn ON faster than a filament lamp, which is always good for stop lights. AS many of us have noticed, LED replacement lamps are taking over the traffic signal market because of their long life and low power consumption, in fact the power consumption of those nice bright LED arrays is so low that the bulb out sensors had to be redesigned to accomodate the lower draw. THAT is also a downside to using leds in a vehicle with a bulb out circuit, but can be worked around.
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One last comment on the lighting thread, the BMW "Rider's Manual" I received with my '82, (and which I'll copy for anyone needing it) has a headlight aiming page. It shows the projected pattern of the lamp. The pattern shown is a MODIFIED E Code. The E Code (left hand drive) is a flat across sharp cutoff with a lift right of center then another flat line. (You can google the pattern) (Flat, a "zig up" and then flat again) The BIKE pattern shown in the manual is flat across with a small bump just to the right of center. It is obviously a motorcycle only pattern which may be why the Bosch
lamp is so expensive. I see no problem in using a standard left hand drive E Code if you can fit it, worked fine for my Guzzi friend. Obviously, the idea behind the E Code pattern is to avoid blinding approaching drivers by having a sharp cutoff to the left but providing a "lift" on the right to aid right hand turns. Factored into the bike pattern, I suspect, is the fact that bikes operate at far higher lean angles.
By far the best auto lamp system for years was the "BMW" four 5.75 inch lamp arrangement seen on a mumber of cars, foreign and domestic though the domestics used the wimpy selaed beams. The BEST version of that was installed on Peugeot 504s sold here and employed a CLEAR spot for the driver's side high beam and a flood for the passenger side. Ya had to be real careful with that system on any road with approaching traffic, but THOSE were high beams. A quick wiring change allow the lows to remain ON when going to high. You can't do that with an H4 as it can't disipate the heat of two filaments operating at once.
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Yes you would need the wiring change. I once had a Renault 11 with quad headlights - when going from high to low one pair of lights went out and the drop in the amount of light was really considerable, a bit like driving into a badly-lit tunnel. I was a bit scared of mowing down a cyclist or pedestrian.
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I have used an HID in an R100RT with acceptable results. Talk about illumination!!!
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What did you use for HIGH beam?
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Monte, knower of all things R65,
The reason sealed beam DOT headlights fell out of favor is their terrible light output. My E30 has 7" cans, and replacing them with Hella euro's improved nightime visibility a lot, as in, hey I can see. To use only one of these dim sealed beam units on a bike will result in marginal visibility at best. Unless of course you can see in the dark. Have you considered having the reflector polished and/or recoated? Shouldn't cost much. Or finding a 9" headlight unit from a 90S? I'm all for the thrifty approach, but just thinking safety here.
Steve
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On my '81, the glass lens is stuck tightern' a tick to the reflector portion. I've gently tried to separate the two but quit when that little debil on me shoulder asks, "Yo, dummy. You got a spare?"
I've used some distilled water to rinse the interior. Cotton swab on a stick. Got rid of a little fogginess on the lens but not much.
Can I see in the dark? I can barely see during the day! Back in 1968, the Navy corpsman at MEPS checking my eyes, for my soon to be awarded 1-A classification, thought I was lying when I told him I could barely make out the big E. And I don't mean the aircraft carrier.
"Gimme those f***ing glasses," says the squid. Stuck 'em in some voodoo machine to check and passed me on as good to go with the comment, "You are gawd damned blind. Next!"
Anyway... I would like to have a bit more candle power out in front on the R65s without spending my wife's birthday present money. I'll keep looking. Harley's have lots of lights...
Monte
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The HID capsule had a solenoid operated sliding "shade" that covered a portion of the capsule when on "low beam" and uncovered it totally in "high beam" The light output stayed the same but the pattern changed...
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I would guess the gasket between the lens and the reflector has welded them together from overheating, like sitting in traffic with the high beam on, by the PO of course. I bet some solvent would dissolve the gasket, but I would prefer to try it on a spare. Once apart, have the back of the lens polished and the reflector rhodium coated. It has to be a lot less than those ridiculous replacement parts prices.
I wonder if the Hella 7" can would just drop in. Under $50. That would be the easiest way to go.
Just my two cents.
Steve
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... I wonder if the Hella 7" can would just drop in. Under $50. That would be the easiest way to go.
Just my two cents. Steve
No spare. That's the concern, so can't justify sacrificing the virgin, so to speak.
Thanks, Steve. May have to continue prowling auto parts stores.
My experiment was pretty much a drop-in deal but what killed it was the thickness of the sealed beam's rim flange. Too fat to allow the trim ring screw to latch onto the headlight bucket. Hella, you say? I'm on it.
Monte
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The Euro lamps are metal, the rim is thin and the difference is made up with little spot welded "U" shaped locator pieces on the back of lamp. They can be ground off with a dremel.
BMW wanted a lamp with a "bike pattern" which - not being intended for auto service, came without with those pieces, perhaps to prevent their use in autos requiring E Code lamps by regulation. The H4 bulb is the same.
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As I mentioned, my buddy's Guzzi had a lamp bucket which acceptd US glass sealed beams. An E Code just dropped in, no grinding required. The owned found the standard E Code pattern and output a great improvement.