The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: RSMike on July 19, 2011, 09:38:02 AM
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I had difficulty sourcing either of the manual recommended greases Molykote BR 2 or Liqui Moly LM 47 L
I put some Castrol LM Grease on last time I had the wheel off, that is rated to 120C, Is that good enough or should I be trying to find one of the above?
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Honda Moly-60 is great stuff, does the job proper and is readily available. One tube will suffice for a lifetime with several Airheads.
Monte
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BMW has a specific grease for this application, I believe it's Microlube GL-261.
I'm at work now, so I can't check the tube to be sure .
It has a BMW part number, so a local BMW dealer may well have it in stock .
I don't know if it's any better than the Honda Moly 60 or not, I've got one bike with the BMW grease and one with Honda Moly 60 grease .
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Any grease will be better than none but it may not last long. When the bikes were new I believe it was some time before they added greasing the splines to the service requirements byway of a service instruction to the dealers. I don't think you will find any mention of greasing splines in the original riders handbook service requirements.
The recommended types of grease have a very high Moly content to combat fretting so if the grease isn't expensive it probably isn't going to be the best stuff for the job. Honda Moly 60 has a 60% Moly content. I imagine anything with a similar amount of Moly would be OK. I use what I found available locally which was a very high Moly content gun grease which certainly was expensive for the size of the tiny tub it came in.
Here's a link which I think provides a very good insight on the need to grease splines and what to use.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Shaft.html
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I've found that the Honda Moly PASTE is actually a bit TOO high in solids content (it is actually labelled as a paste, not a grease, I think). It seems like it can dry up quickly. While the moly-content may still leave an anti-friction layer, once the stuff dries up I don't think it is as good at preventing oxidation/rust/water resistance, etc. So, I'm in the habit of getting a good quality, sticky grease, to which I add a fingertip blob of the Moly60 and mix it together before daubing it onto the splines. Best of both worlds, IMHO.
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Thanks guys, I found a Comma Grease in local Halfords that seems to have similar spec to the Molykote BR2 (see below), I guess I could go to the local Honda or BMW dealer for those mentioned above, but have compared spec sheets on the Molykote and Comma and look similar, (neither give a percentage on the MoS2 content)
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Comma CV GREASE (Lithium Moly No. 2)
APPLICATION
• A lithium-based grease containing molybdenum disulphide (MoS2 ) and molybdenum dithiocarbamate
specially formulated for use in C V joints.
PROPERTIES
• High in extreme pressure additives to give long life under heavy loads.
• Long life for use in well-sealed bearings.
• Oxidation inhibited – Ensures long life in storage.
• Good water resistance – Provides satisfactory lubrication in the presence of water and is not washed
out of bearings.
• Good corrosion protection – Rust inhibited to protect bearing surfaces.
• Chemically compatible with polymeric boot material.
• Includes a laminar solid lubricant which overcomes boundary lubrication.
TYPICAL INSPECTION DATA
Colour Grey/Black
Texture Smooth
NLGI No. 2 (Medium)
Worked penetration 265 – 295
Drop Point °C 180
Range of use °C -20 to 120
4 ball Weld Load (N)
Scar diameter, 40kg 1 hour (mm)
3600
0.440
Oil separation (IP121) 5%
DIRECTIONS FOR USE
• Never over pack the bearing.
• It is sound lubrication practice to remove the old grease before new grease is introduced. If used
grease cannot be removed, Comma C V Lith-Moly grease is generally compatible with other lithium
based greases. When mixed with other grease types, this grease should be satisfactory below an
operating temperature of 80 °C.
HANDLING
• Avoid extremes of temperature.
• Store under cover.
SHELF LIFE
• Five years from date of manufacture.
md 09/
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Just found it got a recommendation here also:
http://www.bmbikes.org.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3402
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I use Copperslip which im sure is availiable in Cork....if not i will fetch you some over in exchange for a drop of the "Black" stuff.
Lou
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I use Copperslip which im sure is availiable in Cork....if not i will fetch you some over in exchange for a drop of the "Black" stuff.
Lou
Have some of that stuff already, but the 500g tub of CV Lith-Moly was only €7 in Halfords so invested in a tub, its an impressive black colour, but always happy to supply a tub of the other black stuff, which has not quite reached that price yet, :)
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I use Copperslip which im sure is availiable in Cork....if not i will fetch you some over in exchange for a drop of the "Black" stuff.
Lou
Lou, I'm pretty sure that Guiness draught is not a recommended spline lubricant. It would however work well as an auxiliary component whilst applying the recommended lube to ones splines. [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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Maybe it isn't a good SPLINE lubricant, but I find that Guiness makes a very good SOCIAL lubricant!
:D
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Dear Lord! They'll all be singing German-ish BMW drinking songs any minute... [smiley=beerchug.gif]
[smiley=grin.gif] Monte
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While I had the rear wheel off today checking for driveshaft oil, I got around to spline lubing with the CV grease
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_1902.jpg&hash=807de359b5106245b7efe5530377236d23bf09c0)
Is this too much grease?
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi719.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww198%2Fmiketruss1%2FIMG_19061.jpg&hash=3e37432aa9048c50fcd09f61d65790dc3689679a)
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You'll have to apply the grease all the way round and fully into the spline teeth on the cardan/final drive side. On the wheel side, where the central hub portion mates with the splines from the final drive, you just want to be cleaned out well. I sometimes use an old paintbrush and degreaser for this - making sure it is dry before reassembling.
I also use an old brush to apply the grease into the splines on the final drive side.
I generally don't have the splines so full of grease that one cannot see that it is splined, but you don't need to be super precise, and it is likely better to have a bit extra that not enough. Any extra will push out and end up inside your brake hub, so don't go crazy with it. I'd say the thickness shown is about as heavy/thick as I'd go, but be sure to get it spread on all the teeth all around.
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The good news is, those splines look nearly brand new! Plenty of life left on them. :)
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Hate to put a damper on things RSMike but if you load up the grease on the final drive splines, when you moount the rear wheel, the wheel spline will squeegee the grease into and up against the big seal in the final drive. When you cinch the axel tight with that big nut on the RH side, it will force some of this greese through the seal into the final drive bearing and the oil supply. Next time the you drain the oil it will come out black. Then you will know you have done this.
Ask how i know this. :-[
So I usually clean out the grease (and dirt) off the final drive splines and grease the splines on the wheel, kind of like putting grease only on the transmission input shaft spline and not inside the friction plate splines of the clutch lest ye contaminate one side of the clutch plate with fresh Honda Moly.
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That is a good point, Bill. I've thought about it in the past, but I still put the grease on the final drive side spline and not the wheel side. But, I guess that I'm not overdoing it as the final drive oil remains its normal color, and there is usually remnants of grease on the splines the next time I have the wheel off.
It is also important for folks to realize that the axle nut should be tightened to spec, and not just cranked on as hard/tight as one can make it go-that will cause too much bearing preload and premature failure (As well as possibly squeezing grease through the oil seal).
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I have probably "over cooked" it then, as I put grease both on the wheel and drive splines. [smiley=wall.gif]
Not ridden the bike yet since doing the job, though I have torqued up the wheel nut.
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When it happend to me I actually went in with my dullest oldest flat blad screw driver and very carefully picked out the old dry grease and crud.
My rear drive has since been rebuilt. But the splines are worn again. Turns out I should have replaced the splines on the wheel at the same time. <sigh>
Gee a mono is starting to look good....