The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Jon_P on May 26, 2007, 01:44:54 PM
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ok have my carbs all cleaned and back together. i would normally set it all up the way i took it apart except in this case. when i was breaking it down i found the P.O. had taken a bunch like 5-6 small washers and black rtv them to the needle under the cur clip. i cant remember where i want to start. to i start with the clip on the top setting and work down? or work up?
what is the stock main jet size? have to double check and see what i have.
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You need to get the numbers off of the carbs, there is a vertical web cast into the front of the carb body, and it will have numbers stamped in it like : 64/32/325. Post those numbers, one from each carb, and when I get home in about 5 hours, I can look it up in the Bing manual I got about a month ago.
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cool!
64/32/204 is the right carb
64/32/203 is the left carb
ok bob now i need to know where can i get my hands on a Bing manual? never have to many books!
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I got mine from the Bing Agency, in Council Groves, Kansas, for about $10. There is a wealth of info in the 20-30 page manual, most of it probably not of much use to the average BMW owner, but more trouble shooting info than I have ever seen for these carbs.
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Jon, the number for the main jet is :140 and the clip position for jet needle is number 2 and this is numbered from the top. Just to confirm that you have a flat top carb. There's a few other numbers listed, for other parts inside the carb if you would be interested in those as well.
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so my main jet should be a size 140? have to go double check that. thanks.
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ok i have 140 mains, where should i start the idle jet at? i have it at one full turn out, to little? to much to start?
thanks
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Idle mixture is 1/2 turn out, the idle speed adjustment calls for 3/4 turn, for the initial adjustment.
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thanks bob!
i need to get me one of those books for sure now.
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Just thought I'd throw this in for balancing. I love mine! I balance at idle & again at 3K
Rich
http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp
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i made one of those! they are great, i also found a set of liquid filled gauges that i hooked some tubes to use, my friend at the shop has a fancy $1k for doing all kinds of carbs and efi. i can get mine as close as that.
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I have to re-do mine. It touched an exhaust pipe. :-/
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ok what am i doing wrong? i rebuilt the carbs, they are clean! i put them back together like the books say to. i set the float like the book said, set the needle and idle jet and idle as instructed. it turn over fine. the carb tubes are off so i can see and hit it with a little gas, which it runs great on till it runs out of the sprayed in gas. so i have spark and compression but i believe my fuel/air mix is all wrong or not working at all.
where do i start?
i have the needle at the second setting from the top, started with the idle jet at 1/2 turn out then 1 turn out. idle set one turn. it acting like its not getting any fuel.
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How are you setting the idle speed adjustment ? I put a thin feeler gauge ( .002 in. or .003 in.) between the adjustment screw and the throttle lever and turn the screw until it just pinches the feeler gauge, then 3/4 turn in. You may have to turn it in more for your bike. Try 1 1/2 turns to see if it helps. Also the cables for the throttle need to be slack. Tighten the 'choke' cables to where they would be normally and put the 'choke' on to get a richer mixture to help it fire.
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first let me say i am all mixed up.
i went back and reread through the book and this thread. i have confussed the idle jet and the mixture adjust screw. i think i need to open the bowls up and then back the idle jet back the half turn. that should make things better.
i am done trying today. going to spend the night with the family instead of the bike, i have tomorrow!!
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No adjustments are made inside the float bowl area, you tighten everything in there and put the cover back on. The idle mixture adjustment screw is on the bottom of the carb at the front, a brass screw with a slot for a regular screwdriver, that sits in a recess.
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ok then i had it right, all the adjustments should be on the little spring loaded job next to where you tap into for the carb turner right?
i think i need a break away from it tonight, tomorrow i will look at it with a fresh look. i have been pushing hard on this to be ready by fridays trip to indy.
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It's best to step away from frustrating situations, you can do more damage than good! Have a couple of La Crosse, Wi. finest (Heileman's Old Style) for me.
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Jon, that's the idle mixture adjust while the other screw (accessible from the top) is the idle speed screw. Start at 1-1.5 turns out on the idle mixture and you will be real close... The final value doesn't matter unless it's way out of line or you don't get any change when you adjust the mixture screw
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old style wow! did think anybody knew about that stff outside of wi. i am a martini guy so some three olive vodka, dry vermouth on ice and i'm relaxing easy.
the thing i dont get is i didnt get a blurp, nothing without a little spray, full choke, three quarters, half, no choke, nothing. i had started at 1/2 turn out on the idle mix screw and then did 1/2 turn tries after that. i would try 1/2 turn, try 1/2 turn and keep doing that.
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I was born and raised in the Chicago area, southwest suburbs.
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first let me say i am all mixed up.
i went back and reread through the book and this thread. i have confussed the idle jet and the mixture adjust screw. i think i need to open the bowls up and then back the idle jet back the half turn. that should make things better.
i am done trying today. going to spend the night with the family instead of the bike, i have tomorrow!!
Yikes. The Idle jet I think is in the bottom corner of the bowl (The one the brass tube sticks down into.) Make sure its tiny hole is open by squirting some carb cleaner through it (point the open bowl away from your face). There is nothing to turn/adjust inside the bowl (other than the float height) - just make sure every thing is snug tight.
Doesn't run - are u getting gas in the bowl? Got spark? Got air?
Once you get the thing running. Set up the carbs.
This procedure assumes you have FIRST:
A. Torqued the heads.
B. Set the valve clearence.
C. Cleaned/replaced the plugs and checked the gap (yes check the gap on new plugs).
D. Set the timing.
E. The Choke Cables are properly set.
1. Set the idle stops so they are not touching the thottle arm on the engine side of each carb. i.e. Back the screw up.
2. Set the freeplay on each throttle cable - adjust the throttle fercule (?) down so you can pick up the cable 1mm above the fercule (before the cable catches and the throttle starts to open). Do both cables the same.
3. Connect your manometer, twin max, etc.
4. Start the engine and open the throttle to 2000-2500 rpms (its not going to idle very well probable 600 rpms) and watch which one pulls more. Adjust the fercules up or down to "balance the opening throttle." I usually go down so I will still have some freeplay in the throttle. Freeplay is important. You want the idle stops to set the idle not the throttle on the handle bar.
5. Let the engine idle.
6. Turn one throttle stop screw up until the engine just starts to accelerate. Stop. Do the same to the other side. And now balance and set the idle speed on the manometer. I usually do one flat on each stop screw until I have idle balance and the idle speed I want. Book says anywhere from 800-1100 rpms. Set where you like it best, for the reasons you like it best, in this range, and don't tell anyone.
7. At this time I replace each spark plug for my Colourtune plug and set the Idle mixture (The bigger screw in front of the bowl underneath the carb - The small one you removed to connect the manometer right?).
8. After I have set the idle mixture in both cylinders, I go back and make sure the idle balance/speed and the throttle open balance have not changed (4,5 and part of 6). When I set the mixture by ear, I had the best luck following the procedure that was under the seat pasted on the rear mudguard decal from BMW.... ::)
9. Then I go ride to check my work looking for anything abbeynormal. [smiley=steinigung.gif] You put the tiny screws back in after you disconnected the manometer right?
BTW - The carbs will stay set best with new cables. Old cables stretch unpredictably and your carbs will go out of sync much quicker. NEW cables make a world of difference.
Really important - If you don't have a fan to keep your engine cool, do step 4 through the end with a twenty minute break between each step to let the engine cool. (Beer brake [smiley=beer.gif] )
This procedure sort of aproximates the Bing Manual procedure. It is the easiest method that I have found. The Bing manual is the bible of carberettors. Thank Almighty God for the Bing manual when you get the chance.
If you end up hating this too much, you might consider a BSA Thunderbolt. It has 650cc, 2 cylinders and only ONE carb!!!!
I may have missed something _ I'm sure if I did some one will let us know what it is. Fact checkers are actually a good thing. :o
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Bill, I believe the brass tube is the overflow and the little jet hid down in the well in the corner of the bowl is where the "enricher" circuit pulls it's gas from.
Jon, if it will fire if you give it a squirt of gas and the bowls are full it definately sounds carb related. I had the same issue with the '82 after first time putting the carbs back together and had to take them back apart and give both a good soaking in a Berrymans Chem-Dip carb soaking bucket. Soak and "rod out" all of the passages you can find with a couple of strands of copper wire and plenty of compressed air.
I can't remember if you have ever had this running, or not. I believe the enricher circuits (chokes) are totally seperate from the other carb circuits so if you aren't getting anything through with the "choke" on then check the jet in the bottom corner of the bowl - waaaay down in the bottom of the well. On the '82 LS, both of them were totally plugged and I had to take a torch tip cleaner to rod them out. Some are pressed in and others screw in. This little well in the corner is basically a bowl for the enricher circuit which is actually like another seperate carb. It just sounds like everything is plugged up...
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i had tore them all the way down and had them sitting over night in the chem-dip can (side note be careful when opening one of those cans when it gets warmer out) i let everything soak then rinsed everything out with water and then used air to dry and make sure all passages where clear.
i have fuel in the bowls, think i need to readjust the floats because i might not be getting the bowls totally full is my first thought for the day. going to start there.
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it runs! it runs! to my miss dismay it lives my mistress lives!
i didnt have the floats set correct and there wasnt enough fuel in the bowls. tweaked the idle mixture till it smoothed out a bit. i will now get ready to sinc them up.
it runs amd lives again after how long it sat and wierd little things about her. [smiley=clap.gif]
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Cool! I didn't realize that the float level could be so low that the enricher wouldn't even work...
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Floats were my frustration. Couldn't get over 55mph for any length of time. Went to a tech day where a more experienced eye picked out the issue as soon as I had the bowls off. now it runs at felony speeding figures without a problem. touchy things these bing floats. congratulations, keep 'er runnin'
Rich
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Bill, I believe the brass tube is the overflow and the little jet hid down in the well in the corner of the bowl is where the "enricher" circuit pulls it's gas from..
Well dang..it has been a while since I've been inside those things. No need to as they are running just fine....there is a "jet" in the bottom corner of the bowl though. I could have sworn it was the idle jet. Time to go read again.
:o