The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Red_Hen on March 28, 2011, 09:07:42 AM
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Hi Gang,
I picked up my R65LS from Judson Motors on Friday. Ron wanted me to take it for a spin but I said "Ron, it's only 30 degrees outside." He gave me gloves & a helmet and told me toride it. I did and it runs unbelieveable!
Hoping to get pictures and a video posted soon.
I've got some tidying up to do and have a couple Questions, if you can help:
1. The mechanic didn't put 2 of the 4 rubber tank cushions on - he said I really don't need them - wondering what you guys think?
2. He forgot to replace a couple burned out instrument bulbs - is there an easy gentle way to remove black cowl w/out taking off the rest of the fairing? I believe I can buy the bulbs at O'Reilly auto parts.
3. I need the little C clips that hold the seat pins in - I know I can buy them at the hardwares store but if you know the size, that would help.
The bike is way cool! Can't wait until it warms up so I can ride her.
Oh, btw - Ron sold me a brand new pair of round red reflectors for the rear.
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Ken,
Just bundle-up and ride! Congrats on getting it back.
1. The mechanic didn't put 2 of the 4 rubber tank cushions on - he said I really don't need them - wondering what you guys think? -- I can only think of 3 cushions, one on the front frame and two on the tank in the rear. The ones in the rear keep the tank from metal-metal rubbing against the frame and I feel they are rather important. You can use flam pipe insulation for the rear if you don't want to buy the factory ones as they are horrendously expensive for two little chunks of rubber.
2. He forgot to replace a couple burned out instrument bulbs - is there an easy gentle way to remove black cowl w/out taking off the rest of the fairing? I believe I can buy the bulbs at O'Reilly auto parts. -- Just be as gentle and careful as possible.
3. I need the little C clips that hold the seat pins in - I know I can buy them at the hardwares store but if you know the size, that would help. -- You can get standard "E-clips" the proper size but they are a bytch to put on. The factory clips have a little "lip" on them that allows you grab onto them with pliers. Most people just leave 'em off...
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Ken,
-- You can get standard "E-clips" the proper size but they are a bytch to put on. The factory clips have a little "lip" on them that allows you grab onto them with pliers. Most people just leave 'em off...
Yep. I've tried the e-clips from Ace (just buy a few that look close and cuss 'em into place) plus I've ordered the BMW OEM clips with the helpful little tab. Shoot! I can lose either of 'em during the first ride. Latched down, the seat ain't gonna fall off.
Monte
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I should sound more excited (spent the better part of the morning restoring files I accidentally deleted on my Mac (Thank goodness for time machine backups!)) - I bought her on Valentines Day 2009. Do the math and it's about 27 months later that I've got her in good order. It's been quite a gratifying experience and wow have I made some new friends and received a lot of help!
Really looks more like a piece of art than a m/c but I'll be happy to call it a m/c and ride it.
I do have the two rubber pieces - don't want to take the tank off but guess I'll have to to get them inserted - guessing there is a slot to place them in on the frame? I can refer to my Clymer book at home.
Thinking about luggage racks but think I'll spend some time riding her first to get a feel for her.
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Here's an attempt to upload a picture. All those tools on the ground?
I didn't have a key for my fork lock and had a used one with a key. After trying about 300 keys and none worked, the mechanic, David, had to carefully drill out the old one and put in the new one.
Good news is I know have a working fork lock and matching key for the seat lock.
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I do have the two rubber pieces - don't want to take the tank off but guess I'll have to to get them inserted - guessing there is a slot to place them in on the frame?
The tank comes off easy in two minutes but you should be able to fit the rear rubbers by just releasing the securing loop from the frame tube and lifting the rear of the tank an inch or two without disconnecting the fuel hose. The original rear tank rubbers were glued to the tank. I would imagine you would get vibration fretting from metal to metal contact if no rubbers were fitted and feel the vibration and noise.
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Nice .....
The seat retaining clips are a pain i no longer use them but be warned the seat can jam if the pins are not located properly resulting in a difficult release job.
Lou
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Hey Lou,
What'a another pain? The whole process was a real breathe-in, breathe-out Zen-like experience. It took a long time but in the end, I'm holding the fruit! It's looks to be a fun ride!
The Lufmeister exhaust really sounds cool - a deep throaty sound; much unlike the sewing machine sound of my K75S or the drumming sound of my F650 Thumper!
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I use 90 degree needle nose pliers and other than dropping an occasional clip, don't have any real problems getting them off or back on again .
I have a Staintune exhaust on the '82 LS and it sounds a lot deeper than a stock LS exhaust .
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Gonna buy a needle nose like that and another member posted a great resource for a tool kit - saw that in the tool kit thread last night.
One of the badges on the tanks is shot and I bought a new one at the MOA Rally this past summer - I know it's an adhesive back - would a heat gun be best to remove it?
Also, how many of you with LS's have luggage racks and Panniers? I don't have plans to put on a windshield but thought Panniers might be nice to have for a road trip.
Thanks much.
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...One of the badges on the tanks is shot and I bought a new one at the MOA Rally this past summer - I know it's an adhesive back - would a heat gun be best to remove it?...
Dental floss. Work the floss behind the badge and then use a sawing motion to cut through the double-faced adhesive foam. Then select your weapon of choice to get the sticky remnants off the tank. I removed the dbl-stik tape from my new farkles and mounted them with silicone adhesive Fit snugger.
If you're careful with the floss, you can slip it back on the wife's spool and she's none the wiser.
Monte
- The guy that "borrowed" his bride's very antique hand mirror to use as a slick base to lay up some laminated fiberglas components. Even though I waxed the glass, the fiberglas bonded so well it pulled flakes from the vintage glass when I popped it free. Oops. Placing a small perfume bottle on the chipped area didn't fool her for a minute.
Ask me about the time I cut up her stainless steel tea strainer thingy to make a fuel tank sump strainer in an aircraft fiberglas fuel tank.
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The factory Touring cases fit fine. I have an extra set of brackets, make offer. You won't be able to lift up the seat without taking off the right bag, but otherwise they fit fine and carry a lot of stuff.
To remove the black dash panel, use snap-ring or needle-nose pliers and carefully unscrew the nut around the ignition switch. The dash is then held in place by two small tabs at the lower front corners and two rubber mounts up near the top on each side. Carefully press inwards on the front lower corners of the black plastic where they meet the red cowl, until you can pop up the lower corners of the black piece just a little, just separating it from the red cowl. You can see the tabs by pressing in a little. They fit into recesses in the red piece. When you have the lower front edge released, just pull the whole thing up and back and the rubber mounts will release. They fit into C-shaped recesses on the back of the dash.
The wiring harness for one of the turn signal bulbs (left?) is a little short and the plug only fits one way. It's a pain to get your fingers under there (mine at least) to push on the connector while the dash is half-way installed. Just persevere, or find someone with smaller fingers.
Good luck.
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Hi Ken, You shouldn't hasve to remove the whole nosecone fairing, the black cowling should just slide upwards away from the faces of the instruments. Just remove the bezel ring from the ignition switch and be gentle. If your cover still has all its parts there are two flimsy plastic bits that slot over rubber grommets.
Mine broke off the first time I removed the cover 20 odd years ago. I have 2 tiny black self tappers screwed into sheetmetal brackets under the headlight bolts securing mine.
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Bruce,
You're is stunningly beautiful! Thanks for your reply.
Making a list of things to do - hoping to ride her this weekend - s'posed to be warming up here in frigid MN - hope so!
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Ken just remember that in these cold temps plastic breaks easily. I'd wait a touch for the temps to rise before tackling the black nacelle on the fairing. You will be pretty lucky if the wee lower tabs are still intact! Just remember to get it moved forward only halfway and then get your fingers inside to disconnect the turn signal sockets from the bulbs. Each socket has a very small tab on it to "unclip" but those could be broken too. I have had to wrap some duct tape around the junction of the bulb and its holder on one of mine. Fiddly job. As is the seat circlips; as is the cable splitters/distributors; as is the bolt for the sidestand...etc...etc. when THOSE jobs come up!! We all will be there for you!
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Thanks for the heads-up about the cold and possiblity of breaking plastic - I had all new bulbs in there but I know on the way down to drop off the bike one did break. I wished they'd checked before buttoning her up but the more important piece is they got the bike running like a swiss watch.
I believe I bought the bulbs at O'Reilly. Do any of you know the size?
Also, I looked in my Clymer book and the rubber mounts the mechanic did not install are the two left & right pieces that go under the front of the tank - should I remove the tank and silicone the mounts in place or is there a slot on the frame to install them?
Thanks again!
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I believe the bulb numbers are SAE 158, 168, 193 .
They're an odd bulb without a metal base .
The rubber parts need to have some sort of adhesive on them, no slots on the tank for them .
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I believe the consensus for tank pad adhesive was shoe-goo? Or automobile door weatherstrip adhesive.
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Hi Ken
I don't think there are any pads under the front of the tank other than the cylindrical one in the front centre plus the two that fit on the tank at the rear (these have survived many years cable tied to my frame tubes as opposed to gluing them to the tank).
Cheers Bruce
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Thanks Bruce - I think you answered my "next" question about where the pads go. Sounds like they go in the rear which may mean not having to completely remove the tank.
Zip ties sounds like a good idea but I've got clear silicone and contact cement on hand.
I did pick up a couple instrument bulbs last night. The only one I want to get to right now is the left arrow for the turn signal. Then I hope to ride the bike in the next day or so.
Thanks gang!
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Hi Gang,
Got the retainer clips on the seat and did my best to position rubber mounts and lock the tank down onto the frame with on the clip.
Went for a test ride and she was running good. All of a sudden she got really loud. When I rolled her into the garage, I noticed the exhaust nut had blown off the bike. I got in my car, drove down the street and luckily rescued the short part of the Lufmeister 2-in-1 and the exhaust nut.
Don't know if I shared this: when I got the bike the exhaust nuts were frozen on the cylinders. One we got off with the special exhaust nut wrench. The other started spinning on the exhaust port or hole. We used a hacksaw to cut off the exhaust nut as it was trashed and corroded.
Now, the bike has been put back together. I now realize we didn't secure the threaded piece back on the cylinder and the exhaust pressure must be so great that it blew the threaded piece off the exhaust port, taking the exhaust nut and Lufmeister pipe with it - like rocket propulsion.
So, my neighbor helped me get the exhaust nut off. We'd used anti-seize when putting these back on last fall.
So my question is now what do I do? Can the piece be secured on the cylinder w/out disassembling the cylinder or????
I guess I've got a few bugs to work out yet!
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To the best of my knowledge, the threaded part is part of the cylinder head casting, unless a change was made that I haven't heard about .
I've never even heard of this happening before !!!!
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How the heck did the threaded exhaust port blow off the head? I've never seen a head crack there, leastwise all the way around the threaded part..
It must have been slightly cracked and perhaps was weakened further when you went after removing the nut with the big wrench, or..... uh-oh...
"I now realize we didn't secure the threaded piece back on the cylinder and the exhaust pressure must be so great that it blew the threaded piece off the exhaust port, taking the exhaust nut and Lufmeister pipe with it - like rocket propulsion."
You didn't remove the exhaust port from the cylinder head when you sawed off the exhaust nut, did you?!?!?
You're either going to need a new head, or, a skilled machine shop with experience in airhead head repairs may be able to weld the threaded exhaust port back onto the head, but it isn't an easy weld repair to do, IMHO, but I'm a very poor welder at best.
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What I meant to say is the threaded piece on the cylinder started turning when we couldn't get the exhaust nut off. That was at the stage when I first got the bike and decided to remove the engine and go through it. In order to remove the engine we needed to remove the exhaust. Maybe the previous owner did some kind of repair - I haven't a clue about the bikes history.
I do know the threaded flange can be tapped onto the exhaust port but I want to figure out the way to permanently attach it so it doesn't happen again. If this means removing the cylinder and sending off for repair than that's what I'll do. I just want this thing to be a reliable runner and not be 100 or 1000 miles from home and have this happen again I consider myself lucky it happened right in front of my house!
I'll call Ron tomorrow at Judson - I emailed him the pics - I'm sure there is a solution. I've waited this long to get it back - now that the bike runs, this is more of a "minor" issue to me. Just another bump in the road.
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Hi Ken, what you seem to have is someones 'fix' for a stripped thread. Normally the exhaust nut thread is tapped onto the parent metal of the head. It looks as if yours has been stripped and instead of taking the head off and getting the alloy built up and re-threaded they have made the threaded steel? adaptor.
The trick now is how to secure it to the parent metal spigot on the head.
The threaded piece looks to me to be thick enough to drill 2 holes through and countersink them to take a small s.s. screw. The hole will have to be deep enough to allow the exhaust nut to still thread on and the screws could be tapped into holes in the remaining head stub.
It only needs to stop the piece turning and the exhaust nuts do not need to be done up very tight.
I guess it was originally glued on, maybe with JB-Weld or similar. It will need some sort of high temp glue to seal the exhaust gasses in.
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Hey Bruce,
Thanks for your suggestion. On the MOA forum, an airhead suggested I "stake the flange" and use Red loctite to seal it. Another suggested I take to a machine shop.
Not knowing the history of this bike, it is possible the previous owner may have had trouble removing the exhaust nut when installing the Lufmeister unit. But I'll never know for sure.
See picture attached - there is a small brass or copper colored small hole on the top of the cylinder where that flange slips on - maybe it was a brass stud that acted like a "Key" to hold it in place.
I know there is a solution.
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I'm not concerned about drilling two small holes through the threaded flange but wondering what the alloy is for the cylinder - will I be drilling through aluminum?
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The cylinder head alloy is quite soft, I guess it's a magnesium alloy. It does look like the previous owner has pinned the threaded sleeve similar to what I suggested with the screws.
I think screws would be easier but you could reinstall a pin. I wouldn't drill right through into the exhaust port in case the pin dropped right through, thats why I thought a threaded fastener would be better.
You could get an engineering workshop to do it but if you are capable and confident do it yourself. I find that if I do it myself I have a better chance of getting what I want.
At leat a pin will stop the sleeve blowing off, if it was a keyway front to back the thread would not turn but there would still be nothing mechanical to stop it sliding forward and off (other than the clamp around the header on the front engine mount, is this missing?).
I think what they did previously was an elegant solution to a common problem and you should be able to get it to work okay.
Cheers Bruce
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Thanks, Bruce and all of you. I've got a plan of attack in place and I'll also share with you in this post some great collective Airhead wisdom I've gathered today.
Plan 1: attempt to re-attach the flange to the head and properly secure it.
Plan 2: ride the bike this season, if I have any further problems, pull the head and send to Hanson's BMW in Oregon. Paul Glaves recommended them as did Ron from Judson Cycle who got my bike running. I spoke with Ron and he did notice the repair but since he did not initiate the repair, did not think to ask me about it - no fault of his. Aside from this, the heads are in beautiful shape.
Alternate plan: there is a guy in Germany who sells a retro-stainless clamp kit for @ $150 that addresses this issue - apparently, mine is not the first to experience stripped threads.
http://www.sternmutterersatz.de/BMW-...p-Details.html
Although an option, I like the aesthetics of how a BMW Airhead exhaust should look and don't think I'll be going down this path.
Here's the collective wisdome:
Barry from Arkansas:
Worked in machineshop and tool&die shops for years. Spent 10 years doing head work on BMW's, Mercedes, Porsche's, Audi's, BMW motorcycles. Fixed a lot of stripped threads on BMW exhaust ports. Set heads up in Milling machine and machined off bad threads. Left most of the exhaust stub material on the head. Made up the new aluminum exhaust threaded sleeves. Looks like the ones in Ken's picture. Mine hade a bout 0.002 to 0.0003 interference fit. Heated the sleeves on a hot plate untill red hot and dropped them on the stubs. Most just bottomed out on the stud. When they cooled down, they were shrunk fit on the stud. My buddy was a welder and would run a a small bead around the stub and sleeve and it was locked on. I would machine or file any excess for a nice look. I made up a set of threaded dies to run over the threaded stubs to make sure the exhaust nuts had a perfect fit. Worked great. Another nice tool is a metric thread tool. You can get them at Sears, probably Northern Tool, others. Their about the length of your hand, 4 sided on both ends. Each end had 4 different metric sizes. I think that tool covered all metric sizes /2's till the end of the airhead run. Handy little tool to fix threads that wean't to bad. I also used my threaded dies to fix a lot of bad threads, and saved alot of my customers from the expense of the more envolved process I just explained.
Paul Glaves: I thought that threaded piece threaded into the head and then the nut went on it. It now looks like the threaded piece is supposed to slide over the smooth piece in the head and then the nut threads on it. Is that correct?
If so I have no idea how that is supposed to stay put because as it heats up the threaded collar is going to expand and get loose. If I understand how they did this then I think brazing is the way to go but I don't know what metal is what. Is the smooth stub on the front of the head part of the head where they removed the original threads? If so I don't think even brazing will fix it.
Calls Hansen's BMW in Bedford, Oregon and see if they still fix these things. The way I have seen them fixed is to build up where the threads used to be and to then machine new threads on the head.
BoxerMAF: Yes it is an alloy and not steel, so one has to be careful if you are putting fine threads into it as they may be easy to strip out.
Most repairs I've seen of exhaust port threads involved welding extra material on stripped-off port threads and re-threading (as the exhaust port threads are easily damaged/galled by stuck on exhaust nuts). I've never seen a fix attempt like this one of apparently staking a threaded collar on. To me, the tricky part of this type of approach is to get the joint to be gas tight and able to handle the temperatures involved. I don't know if it can be done without some form of welding or fitting the head and this steel insert with left-handed threads to screw into the head material somehow.
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Hi Ken, the German stainless steel kits won't work for you as they clamp onto what is left of the threaded stub and yours has been machined off.
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The best repair I know of (and have used numerous times) is Paul Sturges (503 550 9674) who welds up the area and re-machines new threads. It makes for a repair totally undistinguishable from new. I highly recommend him. Cost is about $70. Tell him I sent you -
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Thanks, wirespokes.
I'll keep his number!
Today a (3) friends came by to help me with the project. We drilled through the existing holes on the flange and on the head. One friend, Niel, a retired engineer used two aluminum aircraft rivets to secure the flange. Nick, my other friend who just rebuilt my Honda 125 SL engine gave his blessings on what Niel had in mind. Randy, my neighbor and friend helped with a thread file to file down the rivet on the underside of the exhaust flange. Once the rivets were attached (not with a rivet gun but tapped in and flared with a special ball peen hammer, everyone was satisfied that the flange isn't coming off so fast.
Meanwhile, I consulted Bruce in Australia and Rob Valdez about a nice head on Ebay off an '83 R65LS that only had 15k miles. I bought it for about $107 and plan to get it cleaned up. I also offered him a price for the left head (of the same engine with 15k) so I may end up with a spare left & right head, just for good measure.
Right now, the bike runs awesome. Going to take short trips until I build my confidence about the integrity of all components. She's got a mean growl with that Lufmeister pipe.
I'll post pictures later - going to take a siesta - been quite an emotional ordeal but happy to say All is Well with the Red Hen!
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Okay, as promised, here are pics of the bike and the exhaust flange repair As mentioned in prev post, I bought another head with good threads on Ebay so I have a plan b. I'll get it cleaned up and when I'm read will send this head off to get new threads.
Thanks for all your help! Couldn't have done this w/out the support!
Here's a link to my website that shows the pics of the repair and of the bike:
http://gallery.me.com/kentuvman
Btw: the dental floss worked like a charm for removing the old badge and replacing with the new one!
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YAY!
Hope that you bought those fellas some beers!
Hooray for spring time riding!
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Here she is:
Want to see more pics of her and the exhaust flange repair?
Click here: http://gallery.me.com/kentuvman
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Looks great...so shiny. Paint really that perfect? Mine has lost paint especially on the front of the 1/4 fairing...just worn thin from road grit over the many miles. Still shines up really well but up-close viewing is a bit disheartening. I guess it shows the bike is used!