The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Ben_Carufel on November 23, 2010, 07:49:16 PM
-
I was poking around my bike this morning and noticed that the shift lever has what I'd consider to be excessive side-to-side play (not the lever on the transmission, but rather the pedal).
Is there any way to tighten it, or is there a bearing inside which should be replaced?
Thanks,
Ben
-
Depending on the year of your bike, there could be a plain bearing, a needle bearing, or no bearing at all.
Take it apart!
-
Depending on the year of your bike, there could be a plain bearing, a needle bearing, or no bearing at all.
Take it apart!
Awesome! :P
Mine's a 79. According to RealOEM, I've got the following:
NEEDLE SLEEVE 12X18X16
Part number is 23131238422.
Current retail (11/13/2010) is $10.59.
However, some folks have reported bikes not necessarily having a needle bearing. I guess you're right, Rob -- time to disassemble.
Yay!
-
By the way, this thread has some good advice:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325059
Lastly, Rob, do you know if the rubber "pad" for the shift lever is NLA, or am I just not looking in the right place on the ETK?
-
Also, one of our members posted this video earlier this year. It's a good one for those without bearings in their shift lever setup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O13qBU9THQ
-
This is the closest I could find to what is installed on our bikes, even though it's from a monoshock bike .
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0452&mospid=51628&btnr=23_0277&hg=23&fg=05
-
This is the closest I could find to what is installed on our bikes, even though it's from a monoshock bike .
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0452&mospid=51628&btnr=23_0277&hg=23&fg=05
Hey Bob,
Oh the joys of the BMW parts catalog. In the R65 diagrams it shows a cylindrical rubber "bushing" with the same part number (23311232097) as in the diagram you posted. The actual part pictured on our bikes is of course a much closer match to the look of the one you posted, but BMW tends to disregard the actual look and instead goes by just the part number.
So, the diagram for the R65 shows the wrong part, but lists the right part number...
-
I found a bronze sleeve bushing that I had a local machine shop press into the shift lever after they removed the worn out OEM bushing. Got rid of most of the slop for a $5.00 labor cost. [smiley=thumbup.gif]
Monte
-
I found a bronze sleeve bushing that I had a local machine shop press into the shift lever after they removed the worn out OEM bushing. Got rid of most of the slop for a $5.00 labor cost. [smiley=thumbup.gif]
Monte
Did you find the bushing locally, or was it a McMaster type of thing?
-
Hucky's has that rubber pad for you - $4
http://www.bmwhucky.com/010023.html
Almost all the way at the bottom.
My '79 has no bushing or bearing. But it does have a zerk grease nipple and the shaft has a groove machined in it right inside this grease fitting.
-
My late '84 has a needle sleeve. It does not have a zerk/grease nipple.
In a rare fit of tinkering for tinkering's sake earlier this year I took apart the whole gear linkage to see if I could reduce what seemed to be excessive movement of the type Ben describes.
I installed a new needle sleeve, cleaned/greased everything else, and installed some faucet packing between each shift lever and the spherical bearings on the linkage to help keep dirt out/things lubricated.
I measured the defection at the toe of the shift lever before and after. 8mm before. 6mm after. By comparison, the same measurement on my ’94 R100RT, which has the same set up, is less than 2mm.
I think most of the movement on my R65 comes from the end play of the shift lever on its mounting bolt/screw. I did not replace the mounting bolt/screw as it did not seem to be worn, but this would be an obvious thing to try. Before I do that, I’ll insert a thin shortening shim/washer under the mounting bolt/screw head as I think this could well make the world of difference. Has anyone else taken this route?
-
I found a bronze sleeve bushing that I had a local machine shop press into the shift lever after they removed the worn out OEM bushing. Got rid of most of the slop for a $5.00 labor cost. [smiley=thumbup.gif]
Monte
Did you find the bushing locally, or was it a McMaster type of thing?
Check local hardware stores and the big box retailers. I recall it was a bronze-oilite (sp?) bush/bearing.
Monte
-
That's a great video on shift lever repair, clear and well shot. As a matter of regular maintenance, should I disassemble my shift lever and grease the bushing or whatever bearing is in there?
Wavy
1986 R65 monolever
-
As a matter of regular maintenance, should I disassemble my shift lever and grease the bushing or whatever bearing is in there?
Yes.
Once a year.
-
While you're at it, take the brake pedal off clean and lube it, it's something I bet no one ever does .
-
I think most of the movement on my R65 comes from the end play of the shift lever on its mounting bolt/screw.I did not replace the mounting bolt/screw as it did not seem to be worn, but this would be an obvious thing to try.Before I do that, I’ll insert a thin shortening shim/washer under the mounting bolt/screw head as I think this could well make the world of difference. Has anyone else taken this route?
Resurrecting this thread from a few months back... I have just taken that route. Did you ever fit a shim ?
With nothing to do on a rainy Sunday afternoon I was looking around the bike for a job and descended upon the sloppy gear lever. I didn't believe it should be worn at 12,000 miles and sure enough after a dismantle and clean it was as you suggested excessive end play which was probably mostly there from new. Measuring the gap at 0.016" I made up a 0.015" shim washer and what a difference it made. All the wobble has gone even with the "bent wire" Linkage the gear change was very positive on the ride to work today.
My gearlever had no needle roller bearing and no bush but did have a grease nipple and a groove on the mounting bolt to distribute the grease.
-
Resurrecting this thread from a few months back... I have just taken that route. Did you ever fit a shim ?
With nothing to do on a rainy Sunday afternoon I was looking around the bike for a job and descended upon the sloppy gear lever. I didn't believe it should be worn at 12,000 miles and sure enough after a dismantle and clean it was as you suggested excessive end play which was probably mostly there from new. Measuring the gap at 0.016" I made up a 0.015" shim washer and what a difference it made.All the wobble has gone even with the "bent wire" Linkage the gear change was very positive on the ride to work today.
My gearlever had no needle roller bearing and no bush but did have a grease nipple and a groove on the mounting bolt to distribute the grease.
Barry,
No shim yet. I've been distracted from working on my R65 due to a recent arrival - a '74 TR5T. Now that you've gone down this route with success, I'll move the job up my list and report back in due course.
Mark
-
I just received a needle bearing from Motobins in the UK. Cost about $5
. (I had to order some sidestand springs to get it up to $10 min purchase)
I haven't fitted it yet but I did disassemble first before ordering to check on what was required.
53910 CLUTCH ARM PIVOT NEEDLE BEARING ALL TWINS 1981 ON...) 1 4.85 4.85
EDIT: Hmmm, after posting this I noticed "clutch." My gearlever certainly has a worn needle bearing at the pivot & what I received looks identical. I might have to check this tomorow :-?
-
[smiley=thud.gif] Am I embarresed? I removed the lever & prepared to replace the needle bearing, went to get it from where (I thought) I'd put it...not there & can't find it anywhere. I'll have to order another if I can't find it & put it all back together until it arrives.
Anyway, a machined bush would certainly do the job but the OEM would be so much cheaper & quicker.
-
I think most of the movement on my R65 comes from the end play of the shift lever on its mounting bolt/screw.I did not replace the mounting bolt/screw as it did not seem to be worn, but this would be an obvious thing to try.Before I do that, I’ll insert a thin shortening shim/washer under the mounting bolt/screw head as I think this could well make the world of difference. Has anyone else taken this route?
Resurrecting this thread from a few months back... I have just taken that route. Did you ever fit a shim ?
With nothing to do on a rainy Sunday afternoon I was looking around the bike for a job and descended upon the sloppy gear lever. I didn't believe it should be worn at 12,000 miles and sure enough after a dismantle and clean it was as you suggested excessive end play which was probably mostly there from new. Measuring the gap at 0.016" I made up a 0.015" shim washer and what a difference it made. All the wobble has gone even with the "bent wire" Linkage the gear change was very positive on the ride to work today.
My gearlever had no needle roller bearing and no bush but did have a grease nipple and a groove on the mounting bolt to distribute the grease.
Barry,
I installed Justins upgraded shift linkage this afternoon to replace my stock bent wire linkage.
I have the same setup with the grease nipple and groove on the mounting bolt. There was no stock bearing in mine. I noticed the same play as you; though I didn't measure it, there is definitely a side to side movement.
Can you explain to me how you made up the shim washer? What'd you use? I'd be interested in doing the same thing, if I'm capable...
Thanks!
Ben
-
I just received a needle bearing from Motobins in the UK. Cost about $5
. (I had to order some sidestand springs to get it up to $10 min purchase)
I haven't fitted it yet but I did disassemble first before ordering to check on what was required.
53910 CLUTCH ARM PIVOT NEEDLE BEARING ALL TWINS 1981 ON...) 1 4.85 4.85
EDIT: Hmmm, after posting this I noticed "clutch." My gearlever certainly has a worn needle bearing at the pivot & what I received looks identical. I might have to check this tomorow :-?
I fitted the above needle bearing about an hour ago after removing the old one with a drift. I'll give it a run tomorrow but what I removed was identical to what I ordered above from Motobins. It certainly feels better.
-
Can you explain to me how you made up the shim washer? What'd you use?
Well it wasn't a very elegant engineering process. I punched a washer out of some 0.020" shim steel. Anyone who has tried to cut shim steel with hand punches will understand the result was less than perfect. After that it needed tidying up and then a laborious process of hand lapping the washer down to 0.015". 5 thou doesn't sound like much to remove but it took quite a while and a few trial fits to check the lever wasn't binding when the pivot screw was tightened up. It might be possible to buy a shim washer from a specialist engineering supplier and we do have a good one in town. I suppose I spent several hours producing something that might cost very little but it was something to do on a rainy Sunday.
-
I just bought a 0.032" thick 5/8"id./1"od. brass laminated peel-away shim set from McMaster-Carr for this job. Pt. No. 90805A163. The shims are in 0.002" increments, so it should be a matter of peeling away layers and testing until the feel is just right. I'll probably get to this job next weekend and will report back on outcome then.
Mark
-
I just bought a 0.032" thick 5/8"id./1"od. brass laminated peel-away shim set from McMaster-Carr for this job. Pt. No. 90805A163. The shims are in 0.002" increments, so it should be a matter of peeling away layers and testing until the feel is just right. I'll probably get to this job next weekend and will report back on outcome then.
Mark
Say Mark, perhaps you should consider becoming the U.S. distributor for this item?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#90805a163/=b74b9z
There is no MM-C store near me, and I shudder to think of what they would charge to mail-order one laminated shim.
I would suspect brass would be a better material in this application than steel?
I could order a package of 10 0.020 3/8" ID shims in steel from Grainger, locally for $11, and have them delivered to my local store + sales tax.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Arbor-Shim-5FY88?Pid=search
But then I would have 9 sitting in a drawer and one hardened steel one rubbing away at my aluminum parts.
Just musing, really. Like I said - I've not noticed a real issue with excess play, myself.
-
I just bought a 0.032" thick 5/8"id./1"od. brass laminated peel-away shim set from McMaster-Carr for this job.
Peel away shims !
Whatever next from the land where you can buy anything.
Brilliant idea - I'm seriously jealous.
-
Say Mark, perhaps you should consider becoming the U.S. distributor for this item?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#90805a163/=b74b9z
There is no MM-C store near me, and I shudder to think of what they would charge to mail-order one laminated shim.
I would suspect brass would be a better material in this application than steel?
I could order a package of 10 0.020 3/8" ID shims in steel from Grainger, locally for $11, and have them delivered to my local store + sales tax.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Arbor-Shim-5FY88?Pid=search
To me, brass = bearing material, so that's the way I've gone. Catalog has them as $6.34 ea.
On the rare occasions I've had to order small items from McMaster Carr for home delivery, the next-day freight has been less than $10 (there's only one freight option - and I don't think they calc. freight with on-line orders on the fly, so it's a little bit of a black hole). My new job, like my old, is on a regular drop route and being at the end of the runway at Dobbins Air Reserve Base/Lockheed Martin (think C-130J Super Hercules and F-22 Raptor) means there all kinds of support shops/services in the area that I'm just getting to know.
Happy to help out fellow R65 etc folks. Let me see how these shims work out before setting any ball rolling.
-
On the rare occasions I've had to order small items from McMaster Carr for home delivery, the next-day freight has been less than $10 (there's only one freight option - and I don't think they calc. freight with on-line orders on the fly, so it's a little bit of a black hole).
Yeah - I got far enough into the online order process last night to where it asked me for my credit card information, and it still hadn't given me a shipping price yet, so I just closed the window - I wasn't that curious!
I have a hard time paying $10 for something that will fit in a 1st-class envelope for 50 cents or so. Especially when the part only costs a little over $6.
I don't think that is too Monte-like, yet!
-
. . . I don't think that is too Monte-like, yet!
I heard that! ;D
Monte
-
. . . I don't think that is too Monte-like, yet!
I heard that! ;D
Monte
My job & career in IT is looking more precarious every day. I am rapidly taking your principals to heart! :)
-
Installed my peel-away brass shim on my R65 gear shift today. Big improvement in lever end wobble/free play. Notes below and a lesson learned.
My R65 (1984 23,000 miles) gear lever had about 7 or 8mm of lateral free play before I started this modification (I had already fitted a new needle bearing a while back thinking this might help, but it hadn’t). By comparison the same measurement on my R100RT (1994 33,000 miles) showed no more than 2 mm lateral free play (more miles but less gear changing wear and tear?). After the modification the end free play on my R65 is about the same as my R100RT.
I posted a very short before and after video clip on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqval1PL1V0
This really was a ten minute start to finish job.
I used a 5/8-in id, 1-in od, 0.032-in shim and ended up peeling away three 0.002-in layers. I simply took the lever off the ‘bike, trial-fitted the shim a few times and stopped taking layers away once I had a non-binding fit.
The 5/8-in id, 1-in od shim is really not the right size. I bought it before having the mechanism apart, so size was a guess. If I were to do this again (and I probably will just to do this job “right”) I’d use a 1/2-in id, 3/4-in od shim (McMaster Carr #90805A162).
The cost was Shim $6.34, Tax $0.64, Shipping $4.38, Total $11.36. The smaller diameter shim is a little cheaper. Shipping varies depending what else is in the order and whether it is a residential drop or business. This was a business drop and it was the only item in the order so I took the fullest hit I could on the shipping rate.
Mark
-
And I thought you were able to avoid shipping because their warehouse was in Atlanta!
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=mcmaster-carr&aq=&sll=33.756672,-84.54988&sspn=0.008153,0.013797&ie=UTF8&hq=mcmaster-carr&hnear=&ll=33.713479,-84.586508&spn=0.003855,0.006899&z=17
Neat video. Thanks!
-
And I thought you were able to avoid shipping because their warehouse was in Atlanta!
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=mcmaster-carr&aq=&sll=33.756672,-84.54988&sspn=0.008153,0.013797&ie=UTF8&hq=mcmaster-carr&hnear=&ll=33.713479,-84.586508&spn=0.003855,0.006899&z=17
Neat video. Thanks!
Apparently my new company does not do the same sort of volume with McMaster Carr as my old, so we get hit with some freight even though we're on a regular drop route. Still, can't fault the service, same day delivery for most items ordered before noon.
Mark
-
I am getting a new needle bearing tomorrow for my lever. With my lateral thinking hat on I think I will put the pivot bolt in the lathe and skim a half of a millimetre off the shoulder. If it is then too tight a swipe across the face of the lever with a file should fine tune the clearance.
-
I am getting a new needle bearing tomorrow for my lever. With my lateral thinking hat on I think I will put the pivot bolt in the lathe and skim a half of a millimetre off the shoulder. If it is then too tight a swipe across the face of the lever with a file should fine tune the clearance.
Bruce,
I think that will work just as well as the shim idea. I ended up with a shim 0.026-in thick (i.e. 0.66 mm). If you have access to a suitable gauge, even feeler gauges might work, you might be able to measure the float under the pivot bolt before you start to give you a target for how much machining the shoulder needs.
Mark