The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Julio A. on January 03, 2011, 03:26:08 AM
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Before I dive in and get in this task, I would like to ask the people experienced in this If I already have the complete stuff in my checklist.
So far what I Have is:
•Oil Filter Element (Two Piece, connected by a plastic hinge)
•White O-ring
•Metal Shim
•Paper(or some other material) Triangular Gasket
Is there anything still Missing? :)
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You have everything that you need but have you read up on the $3000 O ring and how to determine correct O ring compression ? I take it from the Exclamation mark in the title that you probably have.
You need to measure the canister depth then calculate the resulting compression of the O ring. The state of the O ring you take out will be a good indication of whether it was under the correct compression. It should be squashed somewhat square but not extruded at the edges (that would indicate too much compression).
This is how I do it
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bmwr65.org%2Fhtdocs%2Fyabbfiles%2FAttachments%2FO_ring_calcs_xls.jpg&hash=92580e7ff9543cc9abde227a443f9f9d13e1768f)
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From what I have read, If i'm using the paper gasket, I need to have one or two shims before the white o-ring depending on the canister depth to achieve a desirable o-ring compression.
Ok, I'll just follow the table you provided.
Is is true that I also need a Black o-ring that has a rectangular cross section? Or is it different because I got this from a R100GS thread?
This thing is really confusing for an oil filter :D
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Julio, Because the canister depth can vary from one bike to another there is no set number of shims and gaskets to use. That's why ideally you should measure your canister depth and then decide if the paper gasket is needed.
The shim is always needed (except on some later bikes that have a rolled canister edge) to protect the O ring from the sharp edge of the canister.
The gasket is need or not depending on canister depth.
The filter will have come with square ring seals bonded to both ends so you don't need to worry about them except to be sure an extra one is not left inside the engine.
Yes it is confusing but not so much when you have done it once.
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Ok, then I'm all set!!!
I'd report to you once I have time to do it.
Dang; college resumes in two days :P
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Dang; college resumes in two days
I can't wait to get back to work tomorrow at the local High School... and the students are not in for the first 2 days which is just bliss. ;D
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The square cross section seal that the GS forum mentions, is required if you have an oil cooler, the filter cap is a bit different design from the bikes that don't have an oil cooler .
The oil filter for a bike equipped with a cooler, doesn't have the rubber seal incorporated into the filter end that goes up against the filter cover, like the filters for a non-cooler bike .
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Let quit over complicanting this $3000.00 oil. I bought my R65 new in 82. have done all the oil changes but the first one and one on the road. In all of the years that I have been a member of the BMWMOA and BMWRA before the internet I never read about this. lt wasn't until sometime after BMWMOA started the forum that I heared about this. I personaly the depth is that important. What is that you have the oring and shim installed. I know of a friend that change his oil the day before a trip. Just a few feet down the road the oil light came one. At idle the light was out with just a few RPM,s the light would come on. We found he had not put the shim and oring back on. Reinstalled and he had no problems with the bike for the years after he had it. Also I have use the old oring many times before changing it.
Don
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Let quit over complicanting this $3000.00oil
Yes I admit. we do over complicate the issue however bear in mind that you have the advantage of owning the bike from new so you know there is no problem with the oil filter set up and therefore have not had to worry about it.
When an owner does the first filter change on a bike new to him he does not know if the previous owner or for that matter mechanic (unless he was an airhead specialist) understood the issues and used the correct components in the right order. So for the first change I think it's best to try and understand them yourself, do it right once and from then on it should be plain sailing.
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From what I can remember, this 'problem' occured in the '70's with the liner or canister that is installed in the oil filter cavity being incorrectly installed form the factory .
I think it has taken on a life of it's own ever since .
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After doing this procedure I found that I needed 2 shims and no paper gasket. And I only have to snug those three bolts down. I was tightening them a lot before. I'd hate to have to put a helicoil in the dang things -- they're so small. It was simple and it's nice to know where my machine's canister was set.
Knowledge is good right?
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Knowledge is freaking POWER, man!
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Knowledge is freaking POWER, man!
Phew! Just checking to see if something had changed... :o
The things I have learned from this website and the Snowbum/Oak and the Airheads - 79-80 clutch carrier bolts, no extended warm ups at idle (wears out the timing chain), spline and throwout bearing lube - are priceless. It all really fills in the blanks.
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Last time I changed my oil, I just put it back with the parts that came off. There was no measuring involved. Did I do it wrong?
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Last time I changed my oil, I just put it back with the parts that came off. There was no measuring involved. Did I do it wrong?
Unless you know (for sure) that the PO measured everything, you should check it.
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I finished my whole day and finished tuning up the carbs and replacing the oil filter.
My first attempt was a disaster. The oil was splurting everywhere on the oil filter cover. I added another shim before the white o-ring. the extra shim did the trick.
Next stop - Starter motor and generator. :P
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I finished my whole day and finished tuning up the carbs and replacing the oil filter.
My first attempt was a disaster. The oil was splurting everywhere on the oil filter cover. I added another shim before the white o-ring. the extra shim did the trick.
Next stop - Starter motor and generator. :P
Good for you did you use the paper gasket?
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Ok, OK, I admit it...from where to where does one measure...what is canister depth??? I have been just looking at the white O-ring to see if it's squashed somewhat like Matt Parkhouse showed us once from the BMW Owners News mag.
Any one care to make a simple drawing for dummies like me?
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Good for you did you use the paper gasket?
Yes, I used the paper gasket.
I didn't measure the canister though. I just thought to put back the parts on how it was already there. Apparently that was not the case since my first attempt leaked(more like Squirted) oil everywhere.
Tightening the thing was the most nervous moment I ever had with this bike. ;D
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Sue
Anton Largiader has one of the best web pages on oil filter issues including a picture of measuring the canister depth with a vernier gauge which is something you really need to do it accurately.
http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/
http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/canister.html
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Ok, OK, I admit it...from where to where does one measure...what is canister depth??? I have been just looking at the white O-ring to see if it's squashed somewhat like Matt Parkhouse showed us once from the BMW Owners News mag.
Any one care to make a simple drawing for dummies like me?
HI Sue,
I used a tire depth gage. The distance is from the edge of the canister to the outer machined surface of the engine case (where the oil filter cover gets bolted on. You have to remove the oil filter cover to measure the depth. If you are going to use the paper gasket, then lay the paper gasket on the outer surface of the case an include it in the measurement to the lip of the canister.
Anotherway to think about it is the top of the oil filter "can" (mounted sideways in the case) is recessed from the outer edge of the case. This is the distance you want to measure.
Adding shims adds pressure on the o-ring. Using the paper gasket takes away pressure on the o-ring. If you take away enough presure, the O-ring leaks!
I'm not good with graphics so perhaps someone else can draw or photograph what is being measured.
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Thank you. I've printed off the link and appreciate the "putting it into layman terms" It was the canister word that was confusing me. I guess I just looked at the oil filter hole as just that: a "hole". Not as a "container" into which one puts the oil filter. The recess was obvious to me as I just figured that was the "seat" into which the white O-rings seats!
When ya learn something new it exercises and helps old brains!!
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Glad to help. Took me a while to figure it out. Part of my problem is that I couldn't imagine why an engineer would design a possible oil path that bypasses the engine. To quote mister Spock "that is illogical."
I had a few choice words for the engineers of this supposedly "simple" bike when I finally fiigured that one out. ;)
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I had a few choice words for the engineers of this supposedly "simple" bike
Haven't we all !
As far as I can make out the current arrangement was introduced to enable oil coolers to be fitted on the R100's. Pity they couldn't have left the smaller engines with the old flat cover and no 3000$ O ring.
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There is a spin on filter mod for the R65 from Der Fatherland but but it is quite dear.
219 euros but you won't have to measure the depth of the canister as the canister will be removed!!!
*WARNING* Do not look at this sight as there is lots of way cool expensive upgrades for your BMW. :D
http://www.motoren-israel.com/product_info.php?info=p16_Spezialoelwannenzwischenring-25-mm-mit-Au-enfilter.html
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If your canister is all buggered up then you can get a new one here!!
The instructions tell it all. They call it a "oil filter housing liner".
http://www.motoren-israel.com/product_info.php?info=p299_Oelfiltermantelrohr-erneuern.html&XTCsid=83fce54fd531a56a8be395be25adce72
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If your canister is all buggered up then you can get a new one here!!
Price is a bit steep but sounds like it includes a bespoke fitting service. I wonder if they sell just the canister.