The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Hrvatin on November 20, 2010, 06:09:14 AM
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I've read a lot about the "old" coils and that they should be replaced with a new version. I have a 1984 R65, and would like to know how I can tell if the coils are the old or new version.
Thanks for the help.
Ron
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The OEM Bosch coil is usually black and gray color. Note the small cracks in the coil body. These tiny cracks, often hidden beneath years of accumulated dirt, create huge ignition issues... all bad.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOrigCoil01.jpg&hash=a447270ec5268e3d44ba4a6c971f625f7143d9b3)
This could be your shiny new Dyna "Brown" coil -sure looks orange to me- from Rick Jones' Motoradd Elektrik. The nasty extra wiring was from a PO's fairing install. Trashed that snake's nest early on.
http://www.motoelekt.com/index.html
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FDyna02.jpg&hash=4b03865120f17e4695d05d85b6345b1e6b23bd1a)
You might also discover a pair of old style Bosch ignition coils wired in under the tank. Gag me, that's what I tossed off my 1983 R65. Both the '81 and '83 R65s run Dyna coils with plug wires, NGK caps and NGK sparklers from Mike XS.
http://www.mikesxs.net/
Monte
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If you have two conventional Bosch coils you are ok but somewhere around the date of your bike they were replaced with a single dual output coil. You should be able to find pictures and info with a search. Here's what Snowbum says about them:
"The early GRAY bodied twin tower coil (Bosch 0.221.500.200) tend to fail, few hold up, failure is by cracking, and internal wires would be cut by cracking, and/or moisture could enter. Lots of ignition problems from those coils, including the acting up of the electronic tachometer"
Snowbum
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Some electrical meters have a MicroFarad function ... as anyone ever tested a new one or knows what the value should be.
Lou
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Lou
Micro farads are units of capacitance and you could use such a meter to test a points ignition condenser.
Any two conductors separated by an insulator will have some very low value of capacitance and I believe ignition coils have some capacitance in the picofrad range (one millionth of a micro farad) but normally speaking ignition coils are thought of as having impedance which is a combination of resistance and inductance which is measured in Henrys or more typically milliHenrys.
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The updated OEM coils are red and black, not a much better part, I put one on my '81 in June 0f '94, it starting giving me problems in '02 .
The case didn't crack, but the primary coil had .7 ohms and gave me problems with starting in temps below 55 F.
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Thanks guys, as usual, you made it easy for me to identify the coils, and where to get replacements.
This forum is great.
Ron
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Thanks guys, as usual, you made it easy for me to identify the coils, and where to get replacements.
This forum is great.
Ron
And the people are nice as well! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
My local club seems to be self destructing do to online acrimony. :'(
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Thanks guys, as usual, you made it easy for me to identify the coils, and where to get replacements.
This forum is great.
Ron
And the people are nice as well! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
My local club seems to be self destructing do to online acrimony. :'(
"My local club seems to be self destructing do to online acrimony."
Bill's note does remind me of a cowboy song obviously written about me, from way back in the day:
"Well, I'm goin' through the Big D and I don't mean Dallas..." ;D
Monte
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Lou
Micro farads are units of capacitance and you could use such a meter to test a points ignition condenser.
Any two conductors separated by an insulator will have some very low value of capacitance and I believe ignition coils have some capacitance in the picofrad range (one millionth of a micro farad) but normally speaking ignition coils are thought of as having impedance which is a combination of resistance and inductance which is measured in Henrys or more typically milliHenrys.
Live and Learn.. thanks for clearing that up Barry
Lou
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Some time in the late 1980s after killing at least two genuine Bosch/BMW coils, I replaced my coil on my 84 R65 with a Japanese twin lead coil off of some mid 1980s Kawasaki inline four. At the time I had no concept that the coil might need to match the rest of the system in some way!
In about 2000 the Hall effect pickup in the beancan (actually a Bosch car distributor minus vacuum advance, rotor button and cap) died (slowly, recovering when cold several times before finally quitting...) so I replaced it with the same part out of a 1982 JB Holden Camira (GM J car) which used the same Bosch distributor but rotating in the opposite direction, with vacuum advance and made locally in Australia.
In other words just about the only part that was the same was the bit I needed!
Then about 3 weeks ago a friends 1994 Ford Falcon refused to start. A weeks worth of evenings was spent diagnosing, extracting the distributor (from under the inlet manifold), getting it timed in right. Or wrong as the case may be. Maybe right this time? New cap, rotor and leads. ARgh. What is left?
Swap the coil into his wifes identical car. Problem moves with the coil... New coil $85, solved.
Needless to say it was the coil. It's just it's been more than 20 years since I've seen this failure, so it didn't occur to me!
Anyway the R65 is playing hard to run; backfiring and carrying on, and the carbs have been rebuilt. Leads are relatively new, copper with resistor caps. Obviously the valve clearances need to be checked...
But after that - well what's the normal replacement coil nowdays? Something off a modern car with dual spark coils? An old Japanese bike?
Graham in Melbourne
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Here in the US/North America, one the most common replacement dual output coils is the Dyna 'brown' coil .
Don't know if they are available in your corner of the world or not .
Here's where the North American members get their coils from, they come with a bracket, so it's a quick install, no fabrication required .
http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm
I've heard that the coils off of a K100 will work, they are dual output with 1.5 ohms of primary resistance, but you'll need to fabricate a suitable mounting bracket for it .
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I've heard that the coils off of a K100 will work, they are dual output with 1.5 ohms of primary resistance, but you'll need to fabricate a suitable mounting bracket for it .
Off to the local car wreckers with multimeter in hand...
Thanks
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...and check your valve clearances before starting ANY troubleshooting. Especially if you have original valves & seats.
Pretty much all of these bikes will need a top-end job before 100,000 miles. Perhaps as little as 30-40,000 miles, depending on year/metallurgy.
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I've also seen early Honda Goldwing coils and some Harley coils recommended for Airheads.
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Just about any dual output coil with 1.5 ohms of primary resistance will work, as long as it fits in the space of the original coil and doesn't chafe on the fuel tank .
My '84 LS came with a non-stock coil, it has no identifying marks on it as to who the manufacturer was .
It is a round coil like a Bosch coil, but it is about half the size .
From what I can tell by the maintenance log I got with the bike, it had been on the bike since 1987 .
A lot of work went into making that coil work on the bike, a lot more work than I would have put into it .
The previous owner wasn't very good at troubleshooting, the bike developed an ignition problem, the first part he replaced was the electronic 'bean can', then the ICU, finally realized that the coil was bad, I got the old coil in the boxes o' parts that came with the bike, as usual, the case was all cracked in multiple places .
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The previous ownerwasn't very good at troubleshooting, the bike developed an ignition problem, the first part he replaced was the electronic 'bean can', then the ICU, finally realized that the coil was bad, I got the old coil in the boxes o' parts that came with the bike
Did you get the spare beancan and ICU, too?? ;D
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As a matter of fact I did get them .
Apparently he put in a replacement ICU, then reinstalled the OEM original .
The spare ICU that I have, has VW Rabbit written on it in what appears to be a paint pencil .
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... Apparently he put in a replacement ICU, then reinstalled the OEM original . The spare ICU that I have, has VW Rabbit written on it in what appears to be a paint pencil .
My 1986 VW Cabriolet has the identical Part # Bosch ICU as both the R65s. Buy 'em at auto parts stores for far fewer bucks than a BMW dealer asks.
Just don't tell your BMW he's running VDub parts. At times, they can be s-o-o-o sensetive;D
Monte