The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: beemer on December 05, 2008, 07:10:40 PM
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Hi guys,my 65LS is hard to get into 1st when she is cold,clutch seems free,and had recent oil change,is this a common thing for these bikes?
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Beemer
BMW bikes are notorious, I mean famous, for the smoothness with thich they shift.
This makes it a bit hard to determine if there is something wrong.
I know from my experience that they do not like to shift properly if everything is else not as it should be.
The transmission can be fine and will seem strange if another aspect of the bike is amiss.
So my question is, do you notice any other symptoms?
And does it only shift funny going into first?
Also is there any difference between an up shift vs a down shift?
Please give more information.
Troy
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Without the information tagordon requested, all I can suggest is that sometimes mine doesn't want to go into first, though the clutch works fine and the shifter pedal feels like it's going down. When that happens, I hold the shifter down and very carefully let out the clutch a little; the bike shifts into first. If you let the clutch out too far you'll jerk forward, of course.
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When you changed the oil, did you also change the oil in the gearbox ? If so, was the drain plug just a bit "fuzzy", or did you notice any chunks ?
Color of gearbox oil that came out ?
These bikes do not shift with the slickness of practically any Japanese bike, but they do generally pretty well, given they are rather overbuilt in most aspects.
Like Ed mentioned, sometimes if my bike doesn't drop into first I let the clutch out a bit and pull it back in again - seems to get the shafts/gears aligned and then it clunks its way into 1st without much effort. I find riding an airhead that shifting is best done more slowly deliberately, and while moving - shifting down into first while completely stopped at a light is always a bit harder than while still rolling into the the stop.
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Hi guys,my 65LS is hard to get into 1st when she is cold,clutch seems free,and had recent oil change,is this a common thing for these bikes?
Confirm the proper adjustment of the clutch release arm to clutch rod... down on the aft end of the clutch housing. Start adjustments at the bottom and work up to the handlebar adjustment.
Monte
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Beemer
BMW bikes are notorious, I mean famous, for the smoothness with thich they shift.
This makes it a bit hard to determine if there is something wrong.
I know from my experience that they do not like to shift properly if everything is else not as it should be.
The transmission can be fine and will seem strange if another aspect of the bike is amiss.
So my question is, do you notice any other symptoms?
And does it only shift funny going into first?
Also is there any difference between an up shift vs a down shift?
Please give more information.
Troy
There is no difference when shifting up or down when the bike is warmed up,it's only when it's been standing that it's hard to get into 1st gear,the gear oil was not to bad when i changed it,and i didn't see any metal bits or anything strange in the old oil,and the clutch seems to be fine and adjusted ok too,i will have to go over it again as soon as we get some decent weather here,thanks,Julian.
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Based on your last post, your shifting sounds normal.
This is a "characteristic of the vehicle".
When starting after the bike has sat for a time
use the clutch a couple times then try your shift into first.
As mentioned it gets the parts moving and they will line up to allow a shift.
Take a good look at how the transmission parts are designed.
And it may make a lot more sense why this happens.
Reading this information a few times helped me.
At first I was sure I had a trashed tranny to rebuild.
So look here:
<http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm>
and here:
<http://micapeak.com/bmw-gs/trans.html>
HTH
Troy
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Based on your last post, your shifting sounds normal.
This is a "characteristic of the vehicle".
When starting after the bike has sat for a time
use the clutch a couple times then try your shift into first.
As mentioned it gets the parts moving and they will line up to allow a shift.
Take a good look at how the transmission parts are designed.
And it may make a lot more sense why this happens.
Reading this information a few times helped me.
At first I was sure I had a trashed tranny to rebuild.
So look here:
<http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm>
and here:
<http://micapeak.com/bmw-gs/trans.html>
HTH
Troy
Thanks for the info Troy,Julian.
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What monte said and...Last spline lube done when?
Just my 2¢
rich
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What monte said and...Last spline lube done when?
Just my 2¢
rich
Just a couple of month's back,J.
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This has always been a problem with mine. I simply rock the bike back and forth a little until it drops into gear. I think it's a matter of the cogs not quite lining up properly when standing still and the rocking gets them moving until they line up and it drops into gear.
I never expect mine to go into gear from the get go until I give it a rock - it's part of my standard starting procedure now. This is not a problem except for the very first time I start the bike - not when I'm at a stoplight, etc.
My [smiley=2cents.gif] [smiley=2cents.gif]
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This has always been a problem with mine. I simply rock the bike back and forth a little until it drops into gear. I think it's a matter of the cogs not quite lining up properly when standing still and the rocking gets them moving until they line up and it drops into gear.
I never expect mine to go into gear from the get go until I give it a rock - it's part of my standard starting procedure now. This is not a problem except for the very first time I start the bike - not when I'm at a stoplight, etc.
My [smiley=2cents.gif] [smiley=2cents.gif]
Sounds just the same as mine!! :)
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One must realize that the BMW transmission is technically a non-synchro transmission. The gears have "dogs" on the face that will mesh with "dogs" on another gear. If a shift is attempted when the "dogs" are lined up with each other then nothing is going to move/shift. Pre-loading the shift lever and slipping the clutch will get things inside the transmission to rotate and the gear "dogs" will then pop into mesh. This is very common/normal at any temp if you are at a dead stop and try to shift from neutral to 1st gear.
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My LS does the same. I usually roll it forward with the clutch in and my foot on the lever a little and it clicks into first.
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My LS does the same. I usually roll it forward with the clutch in and my foot on the lever a little and it clicks into first.
Thanks for all the info,it's great to get so much reponse on this site,it's certainly put my mind at rest,cheers,Julian. :)
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Uh huh! You live, you learn.... Glad to know that it is not just me. Doesn't happen all the time and like Aïda I just move the bike backwards / forwards a little if it does, and it 'clicks' into first.
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hey, i'd just like to thank everyone for this forum, and particularly this thread. been lurking for a while on various topics, but i just got my 1979 r65 this week and getting into first gear was a beast until i read this thread. as a pretty newbie rider, too, it was particularly daunting.
i took her out today and really really was able to ride it for the first time. it was exhilarating to say the least, and if it weren't for the advice, it would have taken me a lot longer to figure it out. eventually, yes, but much faster thanks to you!
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Cool. Welcome Chinatown. Another lady rider amongst us... and an R65er yet. OK guys. New lady in the house. Time for our weekly swipe of deodorant whether we need it or not.
Being a former lurker, but now an official member of the R65 asylum, you know the drill. We want to see some snaps of your scooter. Simple airheads us all... we like to look at pictures.
Monte
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Justin explained perfectly why 1st may not go in at the first attempt because the dogs may not be lined up and the reason why they don't line up on their own is that we have a dry clutch which disengages completely unlike the more common wet clutch bikes which always have some drag especially when cold. That's why some wet clutch bikes clonk into 1st from cold. Anyone with an old Triumph knows all about clutch drag and stiction.
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Count me in. When cold, at rest, letting the clutch out slightly spins the clusters and allows first gear to be engaged. Once the gearbox has warmed up it isn't a problem for me. I don't think it has anything to do with clutch drag. The 68 Bonneville I rode needed the multi-plate wet clutch broken free before starting when cold. I'd pull in the clutch and kick it over until it broke free(Triumph's didn't have primary starting), tickle one carb, and the bike would usually start up 1st kick. You can put our bikes in gear, start the engine, and ride off to avoid the issue. Not that I suggest doing it.
My two sense.
Steve
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...The 68 Bonneville I rode ...
Steve
Jeez, I'm beginning to feel vintage myownself. My last Triumph twin was a 1953. Where's my walker? [smiley=zzz.gif]
I also do the "rock the bike, ease out the clutch" dance to avoid the ugly first gear clunk. Effective.
Monte
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Hidden behind your Whitworth spanners and sockets! The Bonneville did make a beautiful sound, and felt very powerful. All 40 horsepower...
Steve
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This issue was solved for me when a more experienced BMW rider explained pre-loading the shift lever... just giving it a partial nudge up or down before activating the clutch.
Problem solved, and my shifts are much smoother.