The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Adamastor on April 22, 2010, 06:03:09 PM
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Hi there... just a small question:
I usually prefer riding out of the highway, but I might go out on a long trip with a friend on a newer bike with the double CCs of teh R65 (F1150gs) and he likes to ride at about 70/75Mph.
Can a R65 easily ride all day long at that speed with no problems? At that speed revs are at about 6.000 / 6.500 rpm.. redline is at 7500 [smiley=huh.gif]
Anything to be aware of or just go out and ride it ? 8-)
Regards,
Sergio
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Sergio,
That R65 doesn't even get a good charge to the battery until you hit 4500RPM's...it was meant to revvvvvvvvvvvv. Going the 70-75mph all day long shouldn't be a problem. I hit 70-75mph at about 5000RPM in 5th gear. I usually hum along at 55mph @ 4300RPM. The bike will be able to handle the wind beating better than you.
SO
I don't think there's much to worry about. Check your oil levels as a precautionary measure every couple hundred miles or so.
Best of luck.
Bill
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The bike will do it with no problems .
If you have a 29 year old seat, with original foam, your backside might not be thrilled with the adventure .
The wind will beat you up pretty good as well .
An all day ride at highway speeds on an R65 without a fairing, will leave you one tired 'puppy' .
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:)
"all day long" is just a matter of speech, but I meant to ride 2 or 3 ininterrupt hours at those speeds was what I meant.
Wind will be quite rough, right? Maybe I can convince him to cruise at 65/60mph ;) Just dont like to slow others down!
Thanks for the honest opinions, on my 125cc Vespa I ride a lot at full throttle and dont really have these thoughts, but looking at the rev counter makes me wonder ehehe
Regards and sorry if this sounded like a silly question..
Sergio
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Two or three hours on the bike, shouldn't be a problem at all at 70-75 mph .
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When I came back from the rally in Tennessee last summer I rode for 7 hours of interstate diagonally across Pennsylvania and part of New York state, stopping only to refuel. I don't think I dropped below 70 or 75 MPH the whole way (after 7 hours of interstate I had to take 4 hours of backroads, which was relaxing after getting blown around be semis through all of Pennsylvania). The 65 will do it no problem. You might have a little bit of oil "consumption", depending on the state of your lifters, piston rings etc - I didn't burn any oil, its just that these engines can pump a little through the crankcase breather valve and down into the airbox/carbs when run at higher RPMs for extended durations. I think I was down only about 300cc of motor oil on the whole 2200 mile round trip.
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With a new seat and low bars, 2 hours (1/2 tank) is no problem.
If you want additional comfort, get a BIG tank bag and fill it full. Then it will not only block the wind, but you can lay down on it.
You will be thinking rear sets, soon....
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F102573776%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=d048450295a3019372bfeb702474361a00525d77)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F123865745%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=a4107753f8f2d6671eb85995cfc49a9287425d1e)
This is where I bought my repro seat (first picture). I LOVE it! I hope to buy a bench seat from them, as well. They are easy to deal with.
http://www.meyer-bikes.com/ersatz3.php?cat=32
Oh, and I don't know how you are measuring those speeds. The early (120mph) speedos were very optimistic. I gave up and went to a GPSr.
The only reason I don't travel at those speeds is because I don't like getting tickets. And I am an easy target, history has proven. :(
Like they said above - keep an eye on your oil level, but don't fill it any higher than 1/2 between the marks on the dipstick.
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wow. am I ever glad that I ran into this thread. I have been looking for something to replace an aging seat from my 65. I:'ve owned my bike for about 22 years now, and the toil is taking it's place on the seat.
I had a look at the link that you provided above Rob and saw one or 2 seats that I liked quite a bit.
oh, and just to stay on topic. I can attest to the fact that having a big tank bag will definitly help with the wind. This in addtion to the fact that an r65 can be run at what-ever RPM's you put it to. It'll sound kinda rough and 'revvy' after riding it for a few hours but 65's are meant to put up with it.
All in all, r65's are tough little beasts.
...them and the r80's are both pretty tough, I believe.
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Hi there, and thanks for all the comments!
My R65 actually doesnt have a R65 seat, but a /5 seat:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F759%2Figp9703.jpg&hash=efcb4573de90b75a1e1b046e171297f4d8f74327)
I find it very comfortable, I already have done long (10 hour) rides with it with no problems (but not at 70/75 mph).
I actually never tested my speedometer with a GPS (it's in Km/h since I am from Portugal), but I actually might do it just to be sure.. I think my bike is revving too much for its speed (at 4500rpms she's at +/- 90km/h)
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I think that you are probably pretty close on RPM to "normal", I think mine is turning an indicated 4500 RPM @ 60 MPH ~ 97 Km/h or close to that figure. This is with a 32/9 final drive ratio (3.56:1). The other final drive ratio commonly found on R65s is the 31/9 (3.44:1) which would drop your RPMs slightly and not sacrifice much acceleration, though you may find that the "vibration spot" of engine RPM - which is often in the low 4000 RPM range -might occur in a place you don't want it to be.
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In Sept 2006 I did 70-75 mph for 3 weeks/7500 miles and all I did to the bike is change the oil. This included a 50 hours coast to coast Iron Butt Association ride in 44 hours and 36 minutes (JAX-SDO). My speed for the IBA ride was set at 65 mph. The rest of the time I spent at 70-75 mph. I have the 31/9 rear end on the march 1980 R65.
Now before I left I went completely throught the bike all the way down to the spline/throwout bearing lube.
Above 70 mph though fuel mileage drops to about 32-35 mpg though.
If I had to guess I would say the magic number for the R65 is 5200 rpms. Above that mileage goes south fast. Sustained rpms in the 6000 area and people have had problems. The R65 is blessed with an overly large oil pump so it is highly tolerant of abuse. However, if you don't maintain the bike you will have problems.
Look at Russel Daylong for a good long distance saddle. Expensive but worth every pennie!
This advice worth 2 cents. Not what is used to be....
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My '81 R65, with an 85 mph speedometer, that reads 2 mph high, shows 4500 rpm at 60 mph indicated, which would be about 58 mph actual .
So I don't think you are too far off on the engine speed .
You need to see what kind of error your speedometer has, may want to check it on your next highway ride .
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If I'm stuck on the interstate I'll go about 6000 rpms if I can get away with it. Smoooooth.
75 is nothing.
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70/75Mph .... At that speed revs are at about 6.000 / 6.500 rpm.
Somethings not right assuming your talking about 5th gear. Should be more like 5000 rpm at 75mph calculated for a 31/9 final drive and 5200 rpm for a 32/9
Even my R45 will do a calculated 79.5mph at 6000 rpm on a 35/9
I'm sure my 120 mph speedo reads high like almost all vehicles but the speedo and Revs match the calculated values quite closely so I guess that mean the rev counter reads a little high too.
Personally I find 65/70 mph fast enough with the low euro bars. As others have said the engine is more comfortable than I am at these speeds and will easily outrun my tolerance for wind pressure.
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I left my R65 at my father house so I cant check it out, but next sunday I will get her back and check both speed with a GPS and also the final drive relation.
Is there any chance that the final drive inscription says one thing but the the "guts" are different? Is it usual for a rev counter to give wrong information?
This is an ex-police force bike (1985 R65T) with many miles (and years)..
Regards,
Sergio
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Is there any chance that the final drive inscription says one thing but the the "guts" are different? Is it usual for a rev counter to give wrong information?
I would think it more likely that the rev counter is reading high.
The speedos also have ratios to match to the final drive which would be 1.267 for a 31/9 final drive and W1267 should be printed on the bottom of the speedo face under the MPH mark
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If my rev counter is reading high that could be quite bad -> means my idle is too slow = poor lubrication at idle :|
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If you have a nice, smooth idle that is not too fast, that is all you need.
It is possible to have a different gear set installed in your final drive housing, but I'd say pretty unlikely.
If you are really worried about it, you could disconnect the u-joint from the transmission, and count the number of times the universal coupler turns in one revolution of the rear wheel.
This will tell you give you the ratio of the gears.
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The R45/65 Riders Handbook gives graphs of speed/rpm in kmph in all gears at 5000rpm it should be doing 120 kmph in 5th.There given towards the end of the document.
Lou
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The R45/65 Riders Handbook gives graphs of speed/rpm in kmph in all gears at 5000rpm it should be doing 120 kmph in 5th.There given towards the end of the document.
Lou
Hmmm.. Although I still can't test it, I am pretty sure at 5.000 (on my counter) she aint doing 120 km/h (on my speedometer). I will test the speedometer with a GPS tommorow. Hopefully it shows less than it's true (although that would be odd).
If not I will try to check the final drive both the incriptions and count the rotation of one wheel turn.
Thanks for the tips, I will keep you posted.. :)
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I checked my speedometer to tachometer readings on the way to work this morning .
70 mph indicated (68 mph actual) tachometer 5200 rpm .
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Here is a table of calculated revs vs mph for the 3.44 final drive and assuming a 4.00 x 18 rear tire (Metric tires will have a different diameter). These figures correlate almost exactly with the 120KPH = 5000 rpm in Lou's BMW handbook. Another accuracy check is that speeds in the intermediate gears at 7500 rpm are also given in the handbook and they check out with this table.
If anyone wants to substitute different final drive ratios I can e-mail you the spreadsheet.
Just remembered I can't post an Excel file but I can if it's zipped(http://)
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I've got the 3.56 final drive .
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Bob
Here's the table for the 3.56 final drive.
Note a 32/9 is really 3.556 and the calculations use this precise figure even though it displays the rounded up figure of 3.56 at the top(http://)
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Purely in the intrests of science and our members i did a test today...
5000rpm = 75mph
6000rpm = 90mph
7000rpm = yeh baby its a 3.44
Lou
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Any info about 3.36 or 37/11 that I have on my '87
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Purely in the intrests of science and our members i did a test today...
Lou
I can hear it now "sorry officer I was only doing 90 mph as an experiment to check some figures for my mates in the R65 forum would you mind confirming the speed for me from your calibrated police speedo"
Yours sounds spot on.
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Any info about 3.36 or 37/11 that I have on my '87
You should be able to substitute your ratio in the spreadsheet If you have access to Microsoft Excel or Open office would also work.
Let me know if you can't open the file and I'll post an image of your figures.
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Thanks Barry I am working right now and I am using my phone to access the site.Don't have ME or Office on it
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Ok here's the 3.36 calcs(http://)
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Thanks Barry.My speedo reads the same till 4k rpm but above that reads lower.Anyway the speedo start shakin a bit aroun 65 mph mark and reads about 5mph lower.Will try GPS and see the results
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Hi there!
Just got to test the bike against a GPS and found my speedometer is spot on!
I also confirmed that:
at 120 km/h | 75mph -> 6.000rpm
at 100km/h | 62mph -> 5.000rpm
at 80 km/h | 50mph -> 4.000rpm
My final drive has the 31/9 inscription outside.
I counted the number of revolutions of the shaft at the rubber boot (from outside counting the number of times the bolts touched y fingers (4 per turn)) and got 6.80 full revolutions for one wheel revolution.
I saw no serial numbers on the back of my rev-counter...
Is this really odd? What can be wrong/different?
Regards,
Sergio
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I have been doing some math and it looks like I might have a R45 final drive (although it says 31/9 outside) :(
According to the number of rotations per wheel turn the math is very close (my measure was not very scientific)
Looks like I might want to search for a spare final drive that fits better on my engine.. :-?
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I might have a R45 final drive (although it says 31/9 outside) Sad
According to the number of rotations per wheel turn the math is very close (my measure was not very scientific)
Are you sure you didn't count the bolts twice ? Half of 6.8 = 3.4 or a 31/9 final drive ratio. Even an R45 drive would be approx. 3.8 rather than 6.8
Also your speedo wouldn't be accurate if you had the wrong final drive internals. I would still think it more likely that your tachometer is reading high.
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I felt the bolts touch my finger 27 times and 1/4 ... I will go to the garage confirm again... brb :)
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Oh, sorry... I counted two complete wheel turns before... sorry for my mistake..
But this measure is too un-certain to achieve any conclusion... isnt it? :(
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Looks like I might want to search for a spare final drive that fits better on my engine..
What is the point to change the final drive.At 5k rpm different ratio makes 2mph difference :-?
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But this measure is too un-certain to achieve any conclusion... isnt it?
Well I think you can conclude it's probably a 3.44 (31/9)and certainly not a 3.89 from the R45.
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Hmmm.. is there a easy way to test our Rev-meter? (with a multimeter or something like that)
:)
edit:
Looks like there's a way to test the tachometer calibration:
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/tach.htm
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Looks like there's a way to test the tachometer calibration:
This method does work but may not with modern fluorescent fittings that use high frequency starter gear. You want the old fashioned type with a simple starter and choke.
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If you discover with this method that there is an error with your tachometer, how can you calibrate it? Is there a calibration screw?
Regards,
Sergio
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If you discover with this method that there is an error with your tachometer, how can you calibrate it? Is there a calibration screw?
Fundamentally you can have two sorts of errors :
A zero error where the instrument reads either high or low by the same amount at any point in the range. This can be easily fixed by removing the needle and repositioning it.
A span error where the error changes - increasing or decreasing as you go up the scale. There is usually an adjusting screw to fix this type of error but I've never calibrated an airhead Tacho. Maybe somebody else will know where it is. It may be internal.
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Thanks Barry,
I believe, if this error exists, it should be teh second case.. an error that increases as revs go high. I believe this because my idle (1250rpm) seems fine, the charger light goes out at about 1.500rpms, so there shouldnt be anything wrong there. If there is an error it must happen up there..
:-/
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It looks as though others are helping with your tach readings, but just a comment on highway cruising on the R65. I get a lot of engine vibration around 60-65 mph, so it is actually more comfortable for me to ride faster (e.g., 70+ mph) or below 55 mph. Others might know whether this varies depending upon year and final drive, however. Either way, being such a light bike, I feel a little fragile being buffeted around at 70+ mph for more than a few hours. Could be that I'm just not up to the challenge :)
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"Either way, being such a light bike, I feel a little fragile being buffeted around at 70+ mph for more than a few hours. Could be that I'm just not up to the challenge"
Or you just don't have a Windjammer. ;D
Yeah, on my Triumph I get beat up a bit by the wind. I put my feet on the passenger pegs if it's safe to do so, and tuck down. It's way more tiring than on my R65.
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Hi there, i was willing to try the lamp test but discovered that in portugal our electric grid works at 50Hz (not 60hz)... I guess it wont work at 1200/2400/3600rpm... Can you help me out with the formula to know what results should I get with 50hz?
Many thanks...
Sergio
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Got it!
50Hz check point are at 1500 rpm and 3000 rpm (and so on).
It is really hard to do a test with a lot of precision, because I find it very very difficult to fix the throttle at a specific rpm (it is too sensitive and a little movement is always too much), but with the help of my father I think I got these results:
Where is was supposed to be at 1500rpm it showed 1700 and at 3000 rpm the tachometer showed 3500rpm.
If I could find what screw to turn to fix this would be great... at the same time I am not sure If this test is that good..
What would you do? (there's always the option to buy an ebay tachometer... but that's the most expensive solution, ain't it?)
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at the same time I am not sure If this test is that good..
If this type of test works at all then it's very unlikely to be wrong as the Electricity grid frequency is usually very accurately controlled. When I was involved sometime back in electricity distribution and synchronizing generators to the grid. the magnitude of error you have found would have been unthinkable as there was a statutory requirement to keep within 50 Hz + or - 1% and in practice it was always better than that. So I would trust your result.
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Thanks Barry, but the only thing that can be wrong on the equation are my eyes and/or the time it that takes for my father to do the tachometer readings :) I believe the 50Hz should be fine ...
I must try to find the adjustment bolt on the tachometer... Unfortunately I believe it might be inside the case...
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Adamastor
I can't help with identifying the location of the adjustment but I have opened up my Tacho before to insert a small bag of desiccant and it wasn't at all difficult. I think there are just a few screws securing the rear cover.
Whatever you do be methodical and mark or photograph anything you try prior to adjustment. It's likely to be small potentiometer.
And if you succeed we will be wanting you to post a photographic record of the correct adjuster.
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Adamastor
I can't help with identifying the location of the adjustment but I have opened up my Tacho before to insert a small bag of desiccant and it wasn't at all difficult. I think there are just a few screws securing the rear cover.
Whatever you do be methodical and mark or photograph anything you try prior to adjustment. It's likely to be small potentiometer.
And if you succeed we will be wanting you to post a photographic record of the correct adjuster.
Will do that, Barry, I think I might have some time to study it tommorow and will take my digital camera to my parents house (where the R65 is)...
Regards :)
Sergio
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HI there,
It was really easy to find the adjusting potentiometer, it is the only one inside the case :)
I took some photos anyway...
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg203.imageshack.us%2Fimg203%2F6648%2F73424308.jpg&hash=21d70cc71458263772db014bf764fbab360e4c2e)
Unscrew these 3 screws...
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg402.imageshack.us%2Fimg402%2F9826%2F97227931.jpg&hash=c08f647c7055cdf892984688162f00df857a1946)
Inside you find this little potentiometer... that's the one you have to adjust...
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg404.imageshack.us%2Fimg404%2F1776%2F81569915.jpg&hash=b59b610d9f76d0873af9ac4e8d0e03ca8fbdec36)
A little adjustment does a lot, so take it easy.. counter-clockwise drops the needle, clockwise raises it (I had to rotate counter-clockwise just a little bit).
I just had the chance to go for a small ride and at 80 (50mph) km/h on 5th I was at 3250rpm. It looks like it spot on, but will have to test it further at 100 km/h and 120 km/h :)
While I was inside, I also left a little desiccant bag so hopefully I get no moisture inside the tachometer... 8-)
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Glad you solved the problem Adamastor and excellent pictures which should be a good record for anyone else to adjust their tachometer.
That potentiometer looks to have had a spot of yellow paint on it to help stop vibration from changing the setting. Maybe it had moved a little anyway.
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Thanks for posting up the pics - I agree this would be a good set of pics/info to include in our tech section wiki!
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Glad you solved the problem Adamastor and excellent pictures which should be a good record for anyone else to adjust their tachometer.
That potentiometer looks to have had a spot of yellow paint on it to help stop vibration from changing the setting. Maybe it had moved a little anyway.
Hi and thanks, Barry,
I wonder If I should have used also a small drop of paint so it woudnt move...
Sergio
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I wonder If I should have used also a small drop of paint so it woudnt move...
Sergio
Ideally yes but I would live with it for a while to make sure you are happy with the calibration and even if it does move in the mean time at least you Know how to recalibrate it.
By the way the little pack of desiccant proved to be only a short term
fix in my tacho. I've been meaning to take it off and dry it out thoroughly before resealing.