The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Bob_Roller on October 18, 2009, 04:11:33 PM
-
Now that I have successfully gotten the stuck fuel cap off of my '84 LS, I now have to address the rusty tank interior .
Justin, you mentioned that you used common pool acid to de-rust your LS tank .
How did you keep the acid in the tank, did you leave the fuel tap on, or did you use something else ?
Any other methods out there, that have worked for you ?
-
I did mine with a steam cleaner (pressure washer) i made a special pipe end to get into the crevises washed it out at 500psi and 80c repeated this operation 3 or 4 times as i had repeated problems with debri in the fuel tap sorted it in the end but i must admit i was close to coating the inside of the tank with resin but glad i didnt but i did fit a mesh inside the tank had no problems since.
Lou
-
Has anyone in the US bought POR 15 tank liner recently, if so, any recommendations on who to purchase it from ?
-
I lined a fuel tank on a Karmann Ghia with POR 15 a couple of years back. Pretty easy to do if you take precautions not to plug the fuel tap outlet. Mine was available at the local VW Bug shop. Not cheap as a package because you need the muriatic acid to clean the tank, then there is an etching solution, then add the POR 15.
-
I wished I'd known the tank was rusted inside, as I have access to a high pressure washer at work .
Of course, I'm on vacation now !!!!
If the paint wasn't in such good condition, I would soak the tank in an organic acid (highly concentrated citric acid) tank at work .
-
I have some stuff called Ecotec, which seems to be a mix of some organic acids. It works well for de-rusting, and I used it in my Triumph's gas tank without messing up the paint by using a funnel and being really careful. I actually don't know that it would hurt paint but I decided not to experiment.
I got the stuff at a local vintage Chevy parts store called The Filling Station. That reminds me I need to go back there for a third member gasket for my pickup.
-
How long did you leave the acid solution in the fuel tank ?
-
Bob, I used muriatic acid and had to leave it in the tank for around 11 hours but it was 100% grey in color inside when I finished! I would shake it and slosh it around about once per hour. I then rinsed real good with flowing water and followed by an acetone rinse. I pulled the tap and plugged the hole with a rubber stopper...
-
I'm pretty sure I left it in for a day. It doesn't attack clean metal so I don't think there's any risk in leaving it in longer. I saved it in a bucket and rinsed the tank out really well with water. Hot water would be good as the tank would dry faster.
-
Thanks Justin, I'm not sure if I'll use muriatic acid, or something else, I think I'll wait until I get the POR 15 kit and go from there .
-
The POR-15 kit comes with it's own Metal Ready stuff, which is probably similar to what Justin and I used. Probably phosphoric acid based. I just used a whole bunch of it on my Napco axle, which is now shiny POR-15 black.
-
I just got done with my first attempt at removing the rust from the fuel tank .
I put about 2 cups of sharp edged aquarium gravel in the tank, with about a quart of paint thinner .
After about an hour or so of sloshing it around, it looks like about 75% of the rust is gone, there still is a fair amount of the old red liner left in the tank .
I need to go out and find some rubber stoppers, and I'm going to try a couple of quarts of phosphoric acid from Home Depot, slosh it around, and see how it looks after a few hours .
-
Bob, here's a source for the POR-15 along with some extensive data on usage and applications. Monte
http://www.rustedrods.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=4
-
I've got the POR 15 kit already, I just an being hesitant about what to use to get the remaining rust out of the tank .
After talking to a few people about using acid to remove the remaining rust deposits, I've made up my mind, that I am going to hold off, until I get back to work in a little over 2 weeks, and then use concentrated citric acid .
I just have an uneasy feeling, about using anything else .
-
One of the guys here in the car club buys mollasses from a horse supply, dilutes it 10:1 and soaks metal parts overnight in that. He swears by it.
We also have a few guys who have used the POR15 tank sealant and swear by it, but they've set up a rotisserie for tanks.
We also have a steam train that has been completely restored in POR15.
The "Sandfly" used to travel between Larrimah and Darwin when that was the only train tracks here
John
-
One of our members from the UK, mentioned, that he used treacle to remove rust from a fuel tank .
I found two bottles of dark molasses, left over from home-brewing beer, a few years ago, I'm going to give it a try, and see what happens .
Alright, at 1330 today, I put two bottles of dark molasses, and about a gallon of hot water in the fuel tank and sloshed it around a bit .
I'll continue sloshing it around until tomorrow afternoon, and then we'll see if any noticeable amount of rust has been removed .
Surface temp of the tank is 142 F. (61C.), it's still 'summer', here in the northern Sonoran desert of central Aridzona .
-
One of the guys here in the car club buys molasses from a horse supply, dilutes it 10:1 and soaks metal parts overnight in that. He swears by it...
This removes rust? What's the difference between livestock supply house molasses and grocery store molasses? I like the idea if it really works.
Monte
-
Apparently molasses contains an enzyme, that attacks rust .
I drained the solution out of the tank a few minutes ago, and it is quite rusty .
Looking into the filler hole, I can't really see any difference, I'll give it a few days, before I give my final opinion on it .
-
After 23 hours, I drained out the solution, and I got about 3/4ths cup of flaked rust .
There is bare metal showing inside the tank .
I would have to say, at this time, that this is a 'plausible' method of rust removal .
Give it a few more days .
-
What is the brand name of the molasses and where did you get the stuff? Have a Tractor Supply store in town if it is a specific agri biz material. Monte
-
Can't tell you specifics, trash was picked up today, so the bottles are gone .
-
goto this Morris car club site in Australia
http://www.moreg.org.au/dissolving_rust.htm
or this iste on old Indian motorcycles that also has pictures.
http://virtualindian.org/projrust.htm#molasses
and it details the process for using Mollasses, they talk about leaving it for a week to ferment before using.
John
-
...and it details the process for using Mollasses, they talk about leaving it for a week to ferment before using. John
[smiley=ROTFLMAO.gif] I knew it... I just knew it! You guys are drinking this stuff. Homemade shine. ;D
Monte I'll take a jug to go Miller
-
I've noticed, that if I leave the small stopper in the hole in the large stopper that plugs the filler hole, that there is a pressure build-up after an hour or so .
I'll definitely leave this project outside in the back yard, it has begun to develop an 'odor' .
-
I bet it's going to have a metallic taste.
-
I'll definitely leave this project outside in the back yard, it has begun to develop an 'odor' .
So will you and Monte if you start drinking it.
Lou
-
I think that a rust taste, would be the least of your worries !!!!!!!!!
Alright, it's been 4 days since I started this 'Myth-busters Episode' !!!!
I drained the solution out of the tank, and sprayed it with a garden hose nozzle, and about 1/4th of the tank is clean down to bare metal .
Looks like areas where the liner still has a good hold, the solution won't remove the liner .
Myth 'confirmed' .
I'm going to fill the tank up , and put 8 more bottles of molasses in this afternoon .
So that's 10 - 10 ounce bottles of molasses, in a completely full tank .
Can't shake the tank now, I can only roll it onto it's side, then upside down, on an old blanket .
-
I drained the 'molasses mystery mix' from the tank, the rust and the old liner material are gone .
Not a quick process, but it does work .
If I were to do it again, I would mix up the solution, and let it sit for a couple of weeks before filling the tank up with it .
I've got a shop vacuum cleaner with a hose on the outlet of the vacuum, inserted into the tank filler hole, to blow dry it out .
Once it's dry, I'll have a good look inside the tank with a small telescoping mirror, just to make sure there are no loose pieces of liner left in there, then it's on to the POR 15 kit .
-
I wonder if Coca Cola will work. I know it sounds like a myth but I knew a fellow in a boat yard in Trinidad who could not get his through hull fittings to close..they were totally corroded in the open position. He tried all kinds of rust removers and as a last resort he tried Coke. He left it 24 hours and voila the through hulls opened. He then took them apart and they were clean as a whistle.
Has anyone tried coke in a gas tank. If not I think I'll try molasses if I need to.
(Hey, maybe molasses is the secret ingredient in coke :))
-
I don't have any Coke around the house, but if I'm not mistaken, it contains phosphoric acid .
Phosphoric acid is the final prep solution for the POR 15 kit, it's stated in the instructions, that it is for rust removal .
I bet with time, it would work as well .
-
I wonder if Coca Cola will work. I know it sounds like a myth but I knew a fellow in a boat yard in Trinidad who could not get his through hull fittings to close..they were totally corroded in the open position. He tried all kinds of rust removers and as a last resort he tried Coke. He left it 24 hours and voila the through hulls opened. He then took them apart and they were clean as a whistle.
Has anyone tried coke in a gas tank. If not I think I'll try molasses if I need to.
(Hey, maybe molasses is the secret ingredient in coke :))
My late father never could pass up what he felt was a "bargain".
He once bought a Farmall Cub tractor with a sorta seized side valve flat head engine. A mechanic friend suggested he pull the head and pour a couple bottles of Coke down the bores!
After several days and a couple cases of Coke, the acidic soda pop ate through the rust at the piston rings/cylinder wall contact. They suck out the belly washer Coke, oil the bores and she fired off!
In grade school, we did an experiment with Coke and raw beef. The student-maintained puddle of Coke on the steak ate clean through the raw meat. Rot your belly, perhaps?
Sing along with me. Oh, I'd like to buy Taliban-Man a Coke... ;D
Monte
-
I brought the LS tank to work yesterday, and filled it with concentrated citric acid .
I should have waited until I was back to work, to clean the tank .
The citric acid cleaned the tank, without turning the bare metal dark .
I would highly recommend using it, over another acid, if you can obtain it .
I'm going to give it another day, with the tank turned upside down, so all of the rust is removed from the top metal surface .
-
The gas tank on the 76 Goldwing I was bringing back to life was an awful, rusty, varnished mess on the inside. If you're familiar with old 'wings you know the fuel tank is wedged in the frame between the engine and the rear tire, and removal requires taking the entire rear of the bike apart.
I didn't have the time or the motivation to do that, so I used electrolysis to clean the tank. It took a couple "batches" to get it clean, but the results were absolutely amazing.
Here is the procedure I followed:
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2008/10/21/how-to-get-rid-of-rust-in-motorcycle-gas-tanks/
And here are a couple pics:
Before Electrolysis:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb25.webshots.com%2F39960%2F2154972340100726353S500x500Q85.jpg&hash=04bafdf3d4ec141be37ed6edd573aebfaae70fb5)
After a couple bouts of electrolysis:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb54.webshots.com%2F42741%2F2471161980100726353S500x500Q85.jpg&hash=c50f69712551992215e22bd3d352bf1e6125fc58)
-
That before picture, looked like the interior of the LS tank .
I finished up the tank at work yesterday, I drained out the citric acid, flushed the tank with hot water, and even before the tank was cold, it 'flash' rusted in a few minutes .
Enough to make me not want to add the final liner to it .
I'll try phosphoric acid this week, and if the rust comes back like it did with the citric acid, I'm just going to use the tank 'as is' .
-
The 'wing tank started to flash rust, too. I decided not to coat it, so after a final electrolysis run-through, I took a blow dryer set to "hot" and just stuck it in the gas filler opening and let it run for about 20 minutes. Heated everything up and dried it out fast without the flash rust. Then just filled it with gasoline...
-
I put a gallon of phosphoric acid in the tank today, removed the 'flash' rust deposit in about 30 minutes .
Rinsed the tank out with fresh water, inserted an air nozzle into the tank, blew it out for 45 minutes, a bit of rust came back, proceeded to put the tank under a heat lamp for an hour, let it cool off, then added the POR 15 sealer .
This sealer, looked like an extremely thin silver metal flake paint .
After assuring all parts of the tank were coated, the fuel filler drain tube that runs through the tank was the only area, that was a bit difficult to get coated .
Drained the remaining liner out, and from the looks of it, you could probably coat two R65 size tanks with the motorcycle kit, that's 8 fluid ounces (237 ml) of sealing material .
Need to let it sit for 96 hours before doing anything to it .
A couple of days in the Arizona sun, should speed things up a bit !!!!!
We'll see how it turns out .