The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: GrimReaper on January 13, 2010, 12:07:48 AM
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Today on my way to Pioneer saloon i tried to drag my knee on a 180 degree turn.Well what a mistake the bike start wobbling and almost threw me on the ground.Why this happen'?Is something wrong with my suspension?
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That sounds like something I might try after leaving a saloon. Did you actually have your knee down on the ground? I could see where it might take weight off your tires, like trying to make a left corner with the side stand down. Dunno.
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Did you actually make contact? Knee to ground? Why would you want to do that without roadrace leathers and knee hockey pucks? I don't think Troy Courser imbibes before the SKB races ::)
Monte
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Are you sure you didn't ground something hard?
(I have that dream quite often!)
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If you got leaned over enough, possibly got a non-scuffed up part of the tires in contact with the pavement and lost a bit of grip with the road .
I think it's telling you, don't try this again .
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well i always wear leathers so i am not afraid of touching ground.the problem is i experienced this wobbling only in this left turns and i did not lean over enough Bob.
Monte the feeling was the same like in SBK when somebody lost it when exit the turn.
Maybe i need a bit different technique than the one i use on my r11s ;D
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There was probably a girl watching - I stuff up anything cool I can do normally if a chick is watching (or pretending not to watch).
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There was probably a girl watching - I stuff up anything cool I can do normally if a chick is watching (or pretending not to watch).
Motu i am a musician and play in front of many people so i dont really care if someone watch
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By chance, do you get off, or on the throttle, or something like that while in the turn ?
If not, there's only a few generic things to check .
Tire pressures, tire condition, front forks for proper oil quantity, fork springs for being worn out, too short, steering head bearings preload, swing arm alignment, rear shock absorbers worn, are the rear shock absorber spring preload settings the same .
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i was on the throttle but not much.I fees the forks a bit soft.How to check the swingarm alignment Bob
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You check the gap between the frame, and the swing arm .
You set it for equal gap on each side, then rotate the rear wheel by hand and check to make sure the u-joint isn't touching the inside of the swing arm housing, if it is, make adjustments to the swing arm pivot bolts, so the u-joint isn't scraping, or making any noise .
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Maybe i need a bit different technique than the one i use on my r11s
No doubt. They don't call airheads "rubber cows" for nothing. [smiley=cowsleep.gif]
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The R65 definitely handles differently than the R11S does. Not better, not worse, but different. I was going to suggest the swing arm spacing. You need a turned down 27mm socket to make the adjustment and should have fairly equal spacing on each side. I bought mine from Joe's tools on line. Also, the torque setting does have an effect on the handling so make sure that is set properly.
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[movedhere] Chit-Chat [move by] Rob Valdez 79 R65 because it is starting to get pretty technical... ::)
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Guys my R65 is a monoshock with a single side swingarm.I do not have 27mm nut.I will recheck tire pressure and will use different technique next time when approaching this turn(he is not better than me) ;D
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If it was a sudden onset, it may have been dragging something, but I'd expect you'd have heard something. Otherwise, like the other suggest, tire pressure, fork/shock spring preload and/or oil level in the fork, loose-ish swingarm bearings, etc.
The airheads can still corner at pretty good speeds - the whole thing is that one has to be smoooooth about it. Chopping the gas or cranking the throttle midway will be rewarded with significant suspension settling or rear end jacking, which will upset your line through the curve. The monolever and paralever bikes are much less prone to this.
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The torque setting on the pivot bearing of the swing arm is critical to good handling. Make sure the steering head bearing should also be checked. A far as technique is concered: you might consider trail braking to keep the suspension loaded up. When you come off the brakes and get on the throttle the suspension wants to stand up. This might be the source of your woggle. Wasn't there video of the same thing happening from one of our members in England during a left-hander?
Nate Kern believes that staying on the throttle entering a turn to keep the suspension standing will make for a smoother exit and more lean angle in the turn. I cannot fathom riding this way but he is a racer and knows better. :-/
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Trail braking works with my R65s, although I do not intend to touch down with anything other than the tires ;) Monte
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Nate Kern believes that staying on the throttle entering a turn to keep the suspension standing will make for a smoother exit and more lean angle in the turn.
he is absolutely right(of course he is the racer)staying on the throttle is very imporant.I dont like trail breaking.I went back to the same turn and took a good look.The biggest mistake i did was that i aproached it from the inside which made it very sharp turn
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I don't believe you can say trail braking is not a good technique. I thought that the likes of Rossi used trail braking to good effect on the track although he won't be gentle trail braking will he. Isn't that why racers occasionally high side in the entry to a turn.
The other camp, some racers included say that all the braking should be done before entering a turn but I find it difficult on down hill bends. I have a down hill 90 Deg right hander on the way to work that I always trail brake into gently as far as the apex then accelerate out.
Given that I'm never seeking to touch anything down there's no hard and fast rule for every bend either gentle trail braking or acceleration both increase my stability in a bend. Coasting through gives me the willies.
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I'm riding with Barry on this issue.
Granted, automobiles are way different from motorcycles, but I continue to carry and utilize the lessons I was taught at an automobile hi-perf driving school. Students were strongly encouraged to complete any and all braking prior to the turn apex, then start bringing in the throttle and accelerate through the turn.
On the R65s, I employ strong braking with the bike vertical, trail braking in the turn and bringing in the throttle smartly to power beyond the apex.
Granted, my motorcycle road racey-ness is tempered by my advanced age and experiences. Tipping over is no fun. I gave up my old off-road mantra of If you never crash, you're not going fast enough when I began to remember I had a family to support. Those sixteen year-olds are fast!
;DMonte
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I did not say that trail braking is not good technique,I just do not like it.
"This technique is commonly used when racing, but can enhance control and add more evasive options for street riders, making it very worthwhile to learn or at least understand.Worth noting also is that most current (2000 through 2008) racing crashes happen while trailing the brakes into turns, amongst world class Moto GP riders...... Keith Code, founder of the California Superbike School teaches that the only way to effectively and accurately direct and turn a motorcycle is with countersteering, even going so far as to say in his 1983 book A Twist of the Wrist that "To tighten a turn and increase your lean angle, you must countersteer again"
Wikipedia
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Wow! :o Oops! Hard crash!
Hey look what I found!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking
Time to do some reading.... 8-)
Wow interesting article. I had it wrong. I thought trail braking was for the rear brake. Actually the benifit to the Boxer Twin is when it is applied for the front brake. Now what Nate Kern says makes sense... Hmm. I think some gentle experiments are in order ( on my highly loaded cow). ;)
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before trying it with the front brake,watch the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VruWHHEnZGw
That is why i dont like trail braking.
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Copy that!
But really I'm not going to riding that hard. 8-)
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Trail braking can be useful when you have to 'stuff' the bike into a slow speed turn but in my experience hard braking before a turn with power on through the turn seems to provide for a quicker exit. The rear end doesn't drop - with power on it stays in tension - and the bike seems more stable. Oversteering slightly, along with gentle weight shift, while powering into/through a turn will give options for pointing bike during turn exit. The slim rear tire can be induced to drift a bit and a smooth quick turn can be accomplished. Then the massive amount of R65 horsepower can be called upon to carry you to the next corner.
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Countersteering and trail braking are two entirely different animals. Both are effective riding techniques that every rider should, at least, be aware of. Monte
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I have a down hill 90 Deg right hander on the way to work that I always trail brake into gently as far as the apex then accelerate out.
Trail braking can be useful when you have to 'stuff' the bike into a slow speed turn
My down hill right hander is a slow speed turn so that figures.
I don't go in for drifting rear tires though at least not on intentionally.
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OVERsteering - turning the front wheel INTO the turn slightly to scrub off speed and help rotate the bike through the apex. Useful with trail braking or not, helpful with R65 to keep revs and rear suspension from dropping. COUNTERsteering - turning the front wheel in opposite direction on EXIT of turn when rear wheel drifts out. Dirt track stuff applicable to street riding with extreme care, easily accomplished with slim R65 rear tire.
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Just referring to my booklet "The methods of Experts" printed 1950 compliments of BSA and Sunbeam and it states that brakes should only be applied when vertical.
:)
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It also talks about
"The EXPERTS Riding kit"
Cleaving through the air is an exhilarating feature of riding a motorcycle, one of it's greatest charms. But one must be adequately clad. No one can ride really well if cold or wet.
the essentials in body protection are to purchase a motor cycle coat, as opposed to a normal about-town raincoat, and to buy a garment whic is amply large,. Not only must the knees, thighs, and crutch be covered when one is in the saddle, but there needs to be room for piling on under-garments to cope with the cold weather ....
... when waders are used, as opposed to mackintosh leggings, they should fit reasonably snugly over ones shoes, otherwise operation of the brake pedal and gear change will be clumsy.
GLOVES
A square of wash-letaher sewn on to the back of a riding glove can be invaluable for goggle cleaning.
I think I'm now a little off-topic
:-?