The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: azcycle on December 07, 2009, 05:22:03 PM
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I know this isn't about the r65 model, but John (my fiance's recently deceased father) has another BMW bike at his property. I'll post a pic of the bike in it's chopper form... sometime back in the late 60's or early 70's (I think).
We actually still have that frame, rear wheel/tire, rear fender and engine/transmission. Also have a couple BMW gas tanks (not in that picture) and some miscellaneous engine parts/heads in another box but I honestly don't know what year/model BMW it is.
Just comparing photos online to that chopper photo, it looks to be a 67-69 r50 perhaps? Would I be able to find some sort of model/engine ID numbers anywhere? If so, where would they be located?
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2F20ae3d0.jpg&hash=bb95f9440a1b469f02a3756ab9d69644eb39feb4)
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Check the engine crankcase down low, near the oil pan. Check the headstock area for a frame number.
With that rear suspension, the front end was likely an Earles Forks front suspension. Same as Bengt Phorqs son's name, so Mike claims.
Monte
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If you get the numbers off of the frame and engine, you can go to RealOEM.com and put the last 7 characters into the appropriate search box, and it will give you the year of manufacture, and model of the bike .
http://www.RealOEM.com/bmw/select.do
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Ewwww, that is one butt ugly bike! If it was a dog I'd shave it's tail and make it walk backwards. Check out the frame and engine s/n's like Bob & Monte suggest and you'll be able to nail it down. The frame looks almost like a Moto Guzzi loop frame from the '60's, like an Ambo or an Eldo. No doubt you have some good parts there that could be salvaged. Consider parting it out unless you want to get it running and then it would be a conversation piece for sure. [smiley=2cents.gif]
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If the engine is sound, I would restore it back.
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John kept telling us he was going to rebuild it back to stock for his daughter (my fiance) so she may want to keep it. I am fairly mechanically inclined but not sure I could take on a complete restore/rebuild of this magnitude. Thanks for the advice, all. I'll check for serial/ID numbers and see what it comes up with.
Bengt_Phorqs: It might not be too pretty to look at, but John built that up as a teenager out of the parts he could get. Despite building award-winning bikes, I know John always had a special place in his heart for this early monster. ;)
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That does definitely look like a /2 frame, but I think it has had some modifications in the rear end around the fender/seat/upper plunger area, poor thing. That ooga-ogga rubber bubl horn would have to be the first thing to go... :D
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Bengt_Phorqs: It might not be too pretty to look at, but John built that up as a teenager out of the parts he could get.Despite building award-winning bikes, I know John always had a special place in his heart for this early monster.
Graeme, you are absolutely right, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For example, Mrs. Phorqs keeps telling me "you shore are purty" and I tell her she's blind in one eye and can't see out of the other, so it's all subjective. My apologies.
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Oh, no offense taken. :) I'm sure John looked back and cringed a bit when he saw the photo, too... considering what he was able to build later in life.
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Well, I snapped some photos this weekend of the engine, frame and misc parts but couldn't come up with ANY Id numbers anywhere. I unfortunately forgot to upload them to my online album so I can't show them now, but I'll upload them tonight.
The rear fender that is on the frame now is different that what is shown in that old photo.
The frame seems solid, but has a bit of surface rust. I think once the project begins, I'll have it sent out and blasted/powder coated. That is, if I can actually get a title for the frame without any numbers...
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I would contact the Arizona MVD, and ask them about it, but with my experience with them, chances are real good, you're going to hit a wall real quick with them .
When I tried to transfer title and registration from Illinois, to Arizona, I had a 2 month battle with the MVD, all over the fact, that the foil sticker on the frame tube on the right side of the bike, wasn't legible .
I think MrRiden had a similar experience, when he bought his LS a few years back .
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It does indeed look like an R50. The motor number should be on the right side above the pushrod tubes. The frame number should be on the right side of the steering head running sideways.
You can see where the numbers are here on my '61 R60/2 (http://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2002/Slash2%20Teardown/P5200971.JPG). (Sorry not to directly display this, but it's biggish and will screw up the forum formatting.)
The frame appears to have the lugs for a sidecar -- if it does, it was an Earles fork bike. If not, it was an R50US with the pre-/5 telescopics.
If you get into this, you might be interested in joining the Yahoo slash2 email list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/slash2).
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Thanks everyone!
Ah, I bet I just stupidly overlooked the numbers... they're obvious on your engine. Here are a couple pics as it stands now. The huge gas tank is just sitting on the frame. John had a couple BMW tanks lying around.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb40.webshots.com%2F42535%2F2482149690100726353S500x500Q85.jpg&hash=5297b0dedad42fab6d1ce5cc478b0be51e209cba)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb12.webshots.com%2F43723%2F2380989970100726353S500x500Q85.jpg&hash=96edc57a31777380c0b6e8eeb304944cbcca96bc)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb15.webshots.com%2F42190%2F2337053560100726353S500x500Q85.jpg&hash=7bb667c4a7b469ed3b21b151fbf972483c9df78a)
And here is a hidey-hole of BMW parts I found. Is that the transmission there in the back/left?
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb17.webshots.com%2F16144%2F2204378090100726353S500x500Q85.jpg&hash=33edbfcd182b60cf307e9a978fb0b47fc676829b)
Oh, and just for fun... here is John with my fiance Trish as a little girl, on this BMW sidecar outfit he custom built. Taken in New York around the late 80's, when the bike wasn't complete. This bike is now at a motorcycle museum in Japan.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb51.webshots.com%2F44402%2F2871660960100726353S500x500Q85.jpg&hash=eb14d0012ee0c61ce761e81e87b90143ba9e042d)
Here is a Hack'd Magazine Cover with John on his bike before it went to Japan:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb01.webshots.com%2F22272%2F2252994640100726353S500x500Q85.jpg&hash=77ca162a6310794dcd2120bd9bb3537af09e2c7b)
Anyway... thanks for the advice, fellas. Will update as I research more.
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What a great collection of stuff!
Those fuel tanks are currently going for AT LEAST $2000 US or better on eBay. Congratulations!!!
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You're kidding, right? Holy cow... John told me that tank was valuable but I had no idea. :o He told me the story of him buying that tank off a guy in New York where he grew up. Saw it sitting on the guy's front porch, stopped, and talked him into selling it for $20 or something absurd. Guess the guy didn't know it's value!
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Nice! Yes, those tanks -- that looks like a Heinrich -- do fetch a lot of money.
Also, I was saying that you had an R50 based on that first photo and the 6-finned valve cover, plain collar exhaust nuts and round profile cylinder fins. (That last detail eliminates the R60/2.) But the motor you show above looks like an R69S motor, with the 2-finned valve cover and finned exhaust nuts. The engine number or a measurement of the bore will tell all.
If the parts of the bike came from the factory together, then the frame and engine numbers would match. I'm betting they don't however, based on what I'm seeing in your photos. The motor is a mid 60s model, with the early style front cover and a later style timing chest with a separate oil pump cover (that could be replaced with a tach drive cover) -- right where it's resting on that die. The two final drives are early, no later than 1961, as they have no vents at the top. (Can't tell about what's on the bikes in the two photos.) And the frame, unless it has been messed with, is also early, no later than 1961 or 2, as it doesn't have the reinforcing gussets where the vertical tube meets the bottom tube.
The trans is indeed correct for your /2. You will want to find a final drive that has a ratio that matches your motor.
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Congratulations, again, on your new hobby! :D
It looks like the wife was happy to invite her Dad's old bike into the house? :)
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:D Actually, that bike/frame/engine/etc is still out at her dad's property. We don't have the space to store everything. Being the bachelor he was, John enjoyed having his BMW in the house. :)
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I don't see the sidecar lugs in your new pictures.
They would be in these locations, with a fourth on a special front engine mount rod.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F120335394%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=6c3b9d4ad52cd48988014fe4172ab3a598ef071d) (http://www.pbase.com/tomfarr/image/120335394)
click for larger
This is just a good right-hand side shot I found. I don't know anything about the saddlebags.
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Slight update: I found the original registration tags! Last registered by my father-in-law in New York in 1988. No Arizona title or tags anywhere that I can find.
I've got two very beat up and hardly legible wallet registration tags:
- One stating a 1956 BMW Vehicle ID: 663298
- One stating a 1961 BMW Vehicle ID: 655478
There IS a faint number on the right side of the frame near the downtube, but I failed to take a picture of it. I will this weekend. I also found what seems to be the original /2 gas tank with the pads on the sides. It's in pristine condition.
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Wow - there are folks who would LOVE to get their mits on that fuel tank - treat it with care - it is worth a big pile of moola !
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Well I found out a bit more information on this bike. I ended up emailing Andreas Harz at "BMW Group Classic" in Germany and sent him the two ID numbers from the frame and the engine. This was his response:
The BMW R 60 VIN 619220 (frame) was manufactured on January 23rd, 1958 and delivered on April 23rd, 1958 to the BMW importer Butler & Smith in New York City. The engine No. 663298 belongs to a BMW r 69 S which was built on May 8th, 1967 and delivered on May 19th, 1967 to Butler & Smith too. Both bikes were equipped with a bench seat.
I also found the original /2 tank in GREAT condition:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb50.webshots.com%2F11761%2F2092713040100726353S500x500Q85.jpg&hash=c52d3fb8e064d82d47a04d333b88f0fb174347cf)
And I researched that huge tank. It's not a Heinrich but rather made by Churchgate in England. It's not quite as valuable but still worth a bit.
I've spoken with my fiance and I think she has decided to sell everything. We certainly can't afford to restore this old BMW back to it's former glory and we don't have the room to store it. We'd much rather see it go to someone who can rebuild her and get her back on the road (or in a showroom). I'll have to contact the NY DMV and see if we can get titles/etc for the frame and engine. Though it hasn't been titled since the late 1980s.
So if any of you know someone who might be interested in the /2 frame, r69s engine, transmission, rear drives, and all the parts I can find, etc let me know. I'll probably sell the Churchgate tank separately... maybe even the original /2 tank, too. Not sure yet.