The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2

Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Ringo on April 04, 2007, 08:00:35 AM

Title: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Ringo on April 04, 2007, 08:00:35 AM
I am trying to mount a new tire on the front of my LS. It seems I am not getting the bead set, as the tire is "crooked" when I spin it on the balancer. I have only changed a few tires before, but never on the LS and have not had this trouble before. It seems that this wheel is especially tricky because it is kind of "shallow." Or else I am just really bad at this. But I am really getting frustrated. And on top of that, I think I got a leak in the tube. So off it all comes again. Any tips?
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Justin B. on April 04, 2007, 08:26:23 AM
I have not changed an LS tire yet but the snowflake rims are pretty bad in my opinion.  Mix a bout 50-50 dish soap and water, soap it down real good, and keep trying.  I had to put almost 100 psi in the front on our '80 R65 to get the bead to seat.  You can also aggressively bounce the tire, that often helps

Good luck, they can be a byotch at times!
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Clutch on April 04, 2007, 03:47:52 PM
I had the same problems Ringo (even the leaking tube after finally getting the bead set).  It took a couple of hours of constantly working with the tires to get them on.  My frustration level has been equaled but never greater than during this test of will.  Use lots of tire lube (I heard that dish soap isn't good for some reason...can't remember why right now.  I think there may be some corrosive properties to some dish soaps), and don't be afraid to crank up the air pressure in the tube like Justin said.  I also took a tie-down strap and with the tire deflated tightened the strap around the middle of the tire and then added the air to help force the sidewalls out.

I wondered if the reason for the difficulty is that these wheels were designed for tubed tires, and I installed tubeless tires (but still used tubes anyway).

I live in fear of getting a flat and having to fix it on the side of the road!  I actually started a thread about this on the last website, and apparently after the tires have been on the wheel for a while they are a little easier to take on and off (what others have told me).  However, I'm still crossing my fingers every time I ride that I don't have to deal with it.
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Rob Valdez 79 R65 on April 04, 2007, 05:54:23 PM
I'm considering a roadside assistance plan, myself...
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Ringo on April 05, 2007, 07:34:46 AM
100 pounds??
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: msbuck on April 05, 2007, 08:08:39 AM
When I had my flat tire out in California, the Harley shop had a very hard time getting the bead to seat.  He ended up having to use over 80 psi to get it to seat.  Man, I was watching, holding my breath and ducking!  It worked, but it was scary!

(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skylinechat.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fsmiley174.gif&hash=4c53db07619b3079525b641528f2d8c1a498d5eb)
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: MrRiden on April 05, 2007, 07:40:30 PM
Lots and lots of murphys oil soap and 100 lbs of pressure on really really clean rims (you did clean it all up nicely, right?)
Wear saftey glasses!
Rich
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Ringo on April 06, 2007, 07:42:45 AM
Well, no, I quess I didn't clean it real good. I mean, it looked clean. What's "really clean?" I have some "real" tire lube from the shop. Tomorrow I plan to take the tire off and re-mount it. I will lube the shoulders extra good and pump it up. When i first mounted the tire last weekend, I only got the pressure to about 50 pounds, so that may be a factor here.
Umm... what are the safety glasses for?
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: airhead on April 06, 2007, 08:01:23 AM
Quote
I heard that dish soap isn't good for some reason...can't remember why right now.  I think there may be some corrosive properties to some dish soaps

Correct, ordinary dish soaps contain caustics (to cut through those difficult greases), and as we all know, caustic just loves aluminium and alloys. I work in an Alumina Refinery, and the process liquor is caustic soda, to dissolve the alumina out of the bauxite. We use very little aluminium on the plant as a result!!
Bill....................;-)
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Justin B. on April 06, 2007, 02:12:47 PM
I didn't know that.  I've been using dish-soap for 30+ years and didn't realize I was dissolving my rims!
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Clutch on April 06, 2007, 03:03:20 PM
thanks airhead,  it's nice to know some of my memories are real...although that only adds to my confusion of which ones are real and which aren't
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: airhead on April 06, 2007, 07:52:06 PM
Quote
I didn't know that.  I've been using dish-soap for 30+ years and didn't realize I was dissolving my rims!

OMG Justin, stop riding now, your rims are about to disintegrate!!
In actual fact, the amounts would probably be so small that it probably makes little difference. It was just in a report I saw put out by the Tyre Lube Manufacturers Association. LOL

Bill......................;-)
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: MrRiden on April 06, 2007, 09:02:18 PM
Safety glasses are to protect your very vulnerable eyes from bits that my go flying when the bead gives that satisfying POP or in case it gives an expensive BOOM. At 100psi you do need to shield yerself. your pressure may vary.
Rich
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Justin B. on April 06, 2007, 09:33:01 PM
Bill, thanks for qualifying the source of the research.  I have no idea it was conducted to prove their point and sell the product purveyed by their members but there is always some truth in this type of study!

I would imagine that the dish soaps would be very high alkaline in nature and this is definitely corrosive to  aluminum.  I bought some parts cleaner concentrate (for my parts washer) and noticed a caution in the  fine print that it was not for use on aluminum.  I e-mailed the manufacturer and their reply indicated it was because it was  because of the strong alkaline content.  Needless to say I bought something friendlier that smells like some sort of soda pop and is barely better than water...  Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and spend $100 for 10 gl.the petroleum based  junk and re-jug the 10 gl of the "environmentally friendly" $80 crap.  I should have known better, every time I try to do something "green" I find out that it doesn't work nearly as well and I'm not tree-hugger enough to put up with something that doesn't work...  Maybe it'll work for rubber lube?
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: nhmaf on April 06, 2007, 10:06:26 PM
don't worry Justin, that dish soap stuff is mild...

more than just mild, it softens your hands (and rims) while you're changing the tires,

you're soaking in it, now !

 ;D

I couldn't help it, this thread brought back memories of those old TV commercials with Madge....
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Justin B. on April 06, 2007, 10:33:20 PM
Yeah, good  ol' Madge.  We use Dawn so maybe I just need to talk the  ol' lady into switching to Palmolive - if it's good enough for Madge's customers it should be good enough for rims! ;)
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: airhead on April 07, 2007, 04:55:26 AM
Crikey, that Madge gets around!!! We had her as well, and Palmolive weren't even imaginative enough to change her name for Oz but got a person who had a ridiculous nasal over the top Australian accent.





She annoyed the hell out of me, and I always wondered how long before she got sued if it was real life. Almost as bad as that ad that had tooth product soaking into enamel on teeth 'Like ink soaks into this chalk'.................what the????...............but.............ahhh, forget it!!


Bill......................;-)
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Ringo on April 07, 2007, 01:31:23 PM
Update: Last night I dismounted the tire, re-cleaned and lubed the rim and tire, re-mounted the tire and pumped it up to about 80 pounds with my little home tire pump. Rim wouldn't seat. Took it down to the quickie gaseteria and used the compressor. Nada. This morning I took it to Ray's Yamaha here in Greenfield. He laughed and TOOK THE VALVE STEM OUT. He lubed some more and pumped it up to 65-70 pounds. POP. He said the trick is to keep the stem out so that the air goes in FASTER. By the way, he didn't charge me anything and did it right then as I waited, so hats off and thanks Ray's.
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Rob Valdez 79 R65 on April 07, 2007, 05:15:45 PM
Quote
Update: Last night I dismounted the tire, re-cleaned and lubed the rim and tire, re-mounted the tire and pumped it up to about 80 pounds with my little home tire pump. Rim wouldn't seat. Took it down to the quickie gaseteria and used the compressor. Nada. This morning I took it to Ray's Yamaha here in Greenfield. He laughed and TOOK THE VALVE STEM OUT. He lubed some more and pumped it up to 65-70 pounds. POP. He said the trick is to keep the stem out so that the air goes in FASTER. By the way, he didn't charge me anything and did it right then as I waited, so hats off and thanks Ray's.


GO RAY!  post his phone # and location in case anyone is nearby!

And EXCELLENT tech tip - Thanks Ray!
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Chris_in_BC on April 07, 2007, 06:02:17 PM
Quote
I am trying to mount a new tire on the front of my LS. It seems I am not getting the bead set, as the tire is �crooked� when I spin it on the balancer. I have only changed a few tires before, but never on the LS and have not had this trouble before. . Any tips?

The R65 rims are a bear at the best of times. Some tires work better than others. One thing I have found that helps. If you can change the new tire on a hot sunny day and leave it out in the sun for an hour before you start. It does change easier if the rubber is warm rather than cold.

I also use lots of slop and have been up to 100psi before now (funny how you cringe as you do it as though that would help anything if it did blow.  :-/ ) I find often I have to let out the air, put on a bit more slop at the recalcitrant spot and do it again. You can also leave 60-80psi in it and let it sit out in the sun for an hour. Sometimes it will then seat.

And once the new tire has been on successfully and later you get a flat, you normally don't have a hassle getting it to seat a second time. So fixing it on the road is not the same difficulty as putting on a new tire at home.
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Chris_in_BC on April 07, 2007, 06:06:32 PM
Quote
Update: Last night I dismounted the tire, re-cleaned and lubed the rim and tire, re-mounted the tire and pumped it up to about 80 pounds with my little home tire pump. Rim wouldn't seat. Took it down to the quickie gaseteria and used the compressor. Nada. This morning I took it to Ray's Yamaha here in Greenfield. He laughed and TOOK THE VALVE STEM OUT. He lubed some more and pumped it up to 65-70 pounds. POP. He said the trick is to keep the stem out so that the air goes in FASTER. By the way, he didn't charge me anything and did it right then as I waited, so hats off and thanks Ray's.

This does work well if the airline is just a straight feed.  Any air chuck that has the centre pin in it to depress the valve strem down won't work for you. So quite often the air line at a garage won't help you.
Title: Re: Mounting front tire woes...
Post by: Rob Valdez 79 R65 on April 07, 2007, 06:18:34 PM
I was wasn't aware that the center of the tire chuck was the valve mechanism.  I never thought about it seriously before, but I guess I thought that there was a piece inside chuck that contacted the tip of the valve stem circumference and did it's thing.  It is easy to see where extreme industrial application could be different.  And of course, the fact that I don't know what I am talking about.  But it seems to me I have heard of garage mechanics removing the core before and temporarily filling the tire/tube with air.  We're talking decades, here, folk.  Old, fragmented...