The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: noquarter on December 08, 2009, 10:10:27 AM
-
Hey Guys,
Suddenly my bike won't run on whichever gear I use.
My speedo's needle goes up as I increase the throttle even on the supposed neutral.
No rear-wheel movement of any sort.
My acceleration was running a bit rough before I lost all of it.
What could this be? What do I need to check first? Could it be the tranny? Clutch? I could turn the wheel freely on any gear without applying the clutch. :(
Thanks....
-
If the speedometer is moving when you increase the throttle, I'd say that the transmission is still moving inside, so it probably would rule out the clutch and transmission input splines .
I'd drain the oil out of the transmission, and see what you find .
Can you detect any unusual noise when you run the engine, and the transmission is in gear .
-
Just had my gear oil changed a few weeks ago. It's just the usual grey paste and some hardly noticeable metal flakes. The bike had some funny noises on the tranny area and running a bit rough on acceleration just moments before it totally went out.
Now it's all quiet with no movement on the rear wheel on whichever gear... :'(
By the way its an 82' R65LS
-
As the speedo drive is mechanical and on the very end of the gearbox drive-train its likely the final drive is the problem.
Put a bit of wood or something under the center stand slide back the boot on the swinging arm with the bike in neutral rotate the rear wheel you should be able to see the coupling turning then try it in gear either way youll have to strip the swinging arm off to sort out the problem.
Lou
-
Outside chance here, there are 4 bolts that hold the drive shaft to the transmission output flange.
They have been known to loosen up, and fall out .
You can feel for them through the rubber boot between the transmission and swing arm .
-
Thanks Bob...Thanks Lou...Will check on that. Hopefully it's nothing that serious... :-/
-
Either that or the spline on the final drive between the final drive and the wheel are gone. Just pull the rear wheel off and look. Please post a picture of whatever you find please!!!!
At about 85,000 miles I had mine replaced. There's a gent somewheres that saws off the worn one and welds on a new one.
Nathan at Boxerworks sent it off for me.
Good luck. Not as expensive as a re-do on the tranny.
-
The tapered drive shaft addapter on the transmission output shaft could be loose and spinning on the shaft. I would think that you would here some noise if any of the spline shafts are slipping. I have had the output flange come loose from it not getting the right torque when it was installed.
Don
-
Outside chance here, there are 4 bolts that hold the drive shaft to the transmission output flange.
They have been known to loosen up, and fall out .
You can feel for them through the rubber boot between the transmission and swing arm .
All 4 of these have fallen out. :oAny suggested methods on how to keep those 4 bolts in place? Thanks..
-
I would get 4 new fasteners (the short ones, that DO NOT use lock washers) and make sure the threads
on the transmission output flange are clean & dry (http://boxerworks.com/phorum5/read.php?3,36568,36568#msg-36568). (<--lots of suggestions here)
Hopefully you have a 10mm box-end wrench like the one that came with the bike.
Get all 4 fasteners in place and take up the slack on them.
Step on the brake pedal to keep everything from turning while you tighten them down tight.
Using that small wrench, I just give it all I have, without tipping the bike over!
I have yet to strip one out (unlikely), nor have I had one come loose.
I have NEVER used any thread locking compound here.
-
The 12 point bolts are torqued to about 25-29 foot pounds .
So they get tightened up pretty good, for the size fastener they are .
-
I've used Blue Locktite with my short (No washer) stretch bolt to good effect.
I have a 7 inch twelve point wrench that I thinned out on the closed end to make it easier to get in to place. The I just gradually tighten each bolt continually turning the shaft (propellor) until each bolt feels goodntight. 8-)
At least it wasn't something really expensive.
-
Thanks guys...Gave it a spin and everything seems to be alright... :)
-
Thanks guys...Gave it a spin and everything seems to be alright... :)
And i thought i was Lucky.
Lou
-
Were you able to retreive the missing hardware?!!!! All of them?
-
Were you able to retreive the missing hardware?!!!! All of them?
Yup,found them all in the rubber boot except for a washer that was somewhere in the middle of the driveshaft. :-[
Got it with a little patience and luck with a screwdriver.
-
Were there additional washers ?
These bikes only use the short bolts, with no lock washers, or any other washers .
-
Were there additional washers ?
These bikes only use the short bolts, with no lock washers, or any other washers .
Found 4 bolts and lock washers? Should I get rid of the washers instead?
-
The lock washers were the original problem, they would crack, fall out, then the bolts would be loose .
The bike didn't come from the factory, someone familiar with older airhead bikes, must have performed maintenance on it, and put it back together with the older version of bolts .
I would order the newer short bolts, and install them without any washers .
I checked BMW parts sites (even the official BMW site), and all of them show bolts and washers, anyone know the correct part number for the short bolts ?
-
Bob,
Someone should double-check me, I believe it to be:
13mm, 26-11-1-242-297.
Here's a link to Bum's site that should verify.
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/drvshftboltstoolstorque.htm
Mike V.
-
I checked the part numbers, and they are they same that you posted, but they still show a washer being used !!!!!!!
Looks like BMW needs to edit their illustrated parts catalog .
-
Bob,
Yes...BUT, if you go to the parts fische you'll see #2 is "ended" and #3 is the replacement bolt without the lock washers (#2) starting in 1980 (is the way I understand it).
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0364&mospid=47851&btnr=26_0112&hg=26&fg=05
Someone may want to verify all this but I believe the REAL OEM site is updated information. I can give Ted's shop a call when I have some time.
-
I think someone not real proficient with the parts catalog, may order and install the washer, like the IPC shows .
This maybe what happened in this circumstance .
I find it a bit odd, that starting with the 09/80 production date, these were never used from the factory, so they shouldn't even be shown on the parts sites when doing a specific search for a particular manufacture date of bike .
One of those 'gotchas' that slip in every now and then .
Up to now, when I've seen 'ended' in the comments column, it means the part is no longer available, and I'm quite sure an 8mm wave washer is still available .
-
Bob,
Agree with you on all points. Another reason this forum and the consolodated experience of airhead owners and wrenches is so valuable. Most parts vendors are aware this refittment and a lot of information regarding this specific subject matter is well documented and available...if you know where to look. That's where the rub comes in in my opinion. A simple oversight or mistake in an area such as this can result in catastrophic failure and very expensive repair.
I'm still trying to get verification on the bolt part number. When I do, I'll be sure to post it and revise the subject heading for clarification and easy search hits.
The original poster was quite fortunate his free bolts did not end up destroying moving parts. There's plenty of stories of the un-lucky ones out there.
-
If you go to RealOEM, and put the part number that you posted, into the search box, both part numbers for the long and short bolts come up, if you select the R65 model on the second page .
-
BMW Service Bulletin #26 005 83 (2078)
https://www.bmwmc.net/catalog/2078.pdf
It looks like Part # 26 11 1 242 297 is the correct fastener.
-
Thanks for the confirmation Rob, and - I just got off the phone with James at Beemershop, he agrees the correct replacement driveshaft bolt part number is 26 11 1 242 297. This bolt is slightly shorter and to be used without wave washers or lock (split-ring) washers. Blue Locktite is recommended on clean threads. And it also seems to be a generic replacement even prior to 1980.
I think some of the problems may evolve when someone tries to re-use these original factory (long) bolts and washers without knowing of the retrofit.
-
MY 1982 R65LS came with long bolts and lock washers - I cannot guarantee it was installed that way at the factory, but they didn't appear to have been replaced/budged from what I could tell. I replaced them with the new short bolts, of course. I don't re-use these bolts & get new ones everytime, though I hang on to a few of the used ones for emergency purposes.