The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: montmil on November 04, 2009, 06:21:05 PM
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Had an afternoon off today so began the parts removal off the '83 R65 for a steering stem bearing replacement and new fork seals.
I'm spoiled by the clean top on the '81 since replacing the instrument pod with a Vapor digital instrument. By comparison, dismantling the '83 is a chore. :o
I have the Ed Korn bearing pullers; for both inner and outer races, so the actual exchange should go easily.
Dropped the fork legs out of the triple clamps as complete units. Will dismantle, clean and replace seals. I'm still interested to see if I find any hard rubber/nylon spacer rings in the damper assembly. None evident in the '81 legs. I have new rings from Motobins in case I need them.
The 10mm Allen cap screw securing the triple tree assembly yielded after a 30-inch piece of pipe was slipped over the wrench. That was a concern after reading of another R65er's problems. Got lucky, I guess.
As purchased, the bike has had a "cricky" sound when turning the bars. Evidence of bearing races brinelling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinelling In riding, i did not so much as steer the bike rather than aim it! [smiley=laugh.gif]
I will post photos of the actual bearing work. The various parts removal and fork seal chores are old hat for most. May be the weekend before I can get back to the project. The weather is perfect for riding... mid-70s F, no wind and CAVU skies.
Monte
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I bought the outer race removal tool. It worked great on the top race.
I ended up using the rotary cutting tool to get the bottom one out.
I got my lower bearing installed (don't forget a new dust cap!) easily enough. I left my lower clamp with the stem in the freezer for a few days.
My problem is, the top bearing is not sliding into place on the stem like I expected it to. It was no problem getting the old bearing off. It has been like that for a couple of weeks, now, waiting for me to get back out there. Damn overtime...
I need to purchase a large pair of channellocks, too.
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With pics, it would be a good article for the wiki - at some point, we;ve gotta just dive in more and do it/learn it!
Think of all the grateful posterity..
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For what ever it's worth, I tried a metric grease fitting for the plastic caps that cover the 2 holes, that are used for a fairing attach point on the front of the steering stem tube .
The fitting that I got today, an M8-1.25, won't work, it threads in about .75 turns, then stops apparently the thread is finer for a bolt application .
It may work, for greasing the bearings, but I wouldn't leave it in there for the long term .
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I have new rings from Motobins in case I need them.
Monte, I've never been able to find our damper piston rings at Motobins or anywhere else in the UK for that matter. They only seem to stock wiper rings for older airheads but not the metal ones.
There was a thread on the Airheads List recently about these metal rings and one of the Guru's reckoned you should not change them as new ones take forever to run in and won't seal as well and anyway they are made of inferior metal. Sorry I wouldn't know how to begin providing a short cut for you. Whoever described the Airhead List as "Steam powered internet" was right.
When I had my forks apart it I could see that the damper piston rings had not been properly run in yet at 9000 miles.
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Barry - The rings in the damper assembly on certain years of R65's were made of a hard rubber compound. Usually, they eventually become the sludge found when the forks are disassembled for the first time.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FP4270002.jpg&hash=2935d5291a5661285fa2ce9a881ec38db3299d3c)
My Motobins rings are of nylon. The OEM and replacement rings I'm alluding to are not metal. Believe they are fitted to maintain correct fork spring preload.
I'll know more as disassembly continues.
Monte
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Ok I understand now you mean the rebound bumpers. It's just the damper piston rings which are for all the world like miniature engine piston rings were a suprise to me as the older airheads used something quite different. It's initially a bit disconcerting that Motobins stock virtually no spares for R65 forks but the reason is there's likely nothing to replace except these rebound bumpers. (http://)
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... these rebound bumpers.
Those pictured are the ones I have on hand from Motobins. They are going into the '83 R65.
Probably need to order another pair for the '81 as the grunge photo is the remains of the 81's OEM black rubber 'rings". Too newbie at the time to realize what the junk was. :-?
Monte
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Saturday morning turned out to be busier than I expected.
Before dealing with the R65 head bearings, I had to change a fuel filter on the 1986 Cabriolet. Noticed a stutter or two over the past couple days so after installing a new filter -they are about the size of a #8 can of green beans- I cut open the old filter. D'oh... I'm thinking the 10% ethanol in our unleaded is messing with my vintage fuel lines. Grrr...
On to the R65...
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FUpperRace01.jpg&hash=93105592b81962fc6d85fd83cb6eb9780e866aa1)
Can you say brinelling boys and girls? And check the dirt living under the instrument pod. Gag me. I got more work to do.
This is the top bearing race after wiping off what was left of the BMW original green grease. Theses bearings have not seen daylight in over twenty-six years.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FLowerRace01.jpg&hash=b790912ffcbaf0a5bbb9b50e95f656e6745e3a32)
A freehand no viewfinder shot of the lower race. Not as bad as the top but ready for the trash heap. Only minimal grease in the bearing rollers. Almost dry.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FLowerClamp01.jpg&hash=da2db09bf7389a5afe29b58bcf4d5a56cd9e5c1e)
Stem and lower bearing after a mineral spirits bath to clean up the nasty, dirty aluminum clamp.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FTachOnaRope.jpg&hash=b4fdcde33d4a62baf6cd77db2cf226e77a285905)
Not wanting to disturb vintage connectors, I suspended the forward instrument and lighting assembly from a ceiling joist.
Amazing how filthy everything was under the rubber cowling. I'm seriously considering adding a Vapor digital instrument to this bike; just like the 81's. Either way, I have a lot of cleaning to do before reassembly.
Sunday may permit playing with the Ed Korn bearing tools... First have to take care of some timber chores at Los Encinos.
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That's a job Ill have to do sometime Monte. I'm still on the original bearings and got away with cleaning off the old hard grease last time. Even though the bearings looked much like yours they are still nice and smooth with new grease. Truth is I don't have the tools to get the old ones off.
I'm sure you'll be telling us how easy it is with the pullers you've got.
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...I'm sure you'll be telling us how easy it is with the pullers you've got.
Barry, I'd bet you have a shed full of tools and that you're more than capable of stripping off the steering head bearings.[smiley=thumbup.gif] Others amongst us, too. But. . .
...Yes, the chore was a non-event. This morning, I set a timer to confirm what Ed Korn and Company say... "Turns a 2-3 hour job into a five minute process." Guess I'm kinda slow as I stopped the timer at six minutes, job start to finish. Best $39.00 I've spent in quite awhile.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FPuller01.jpg&hash=e66f7e61da773dbe23153623b205f9dd02bfbea0)
Inner Race Bearing Puller in position on the lower stem bearing. A 9/16" wrench is all the accessory support you'll need.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FPuller02.jpg&hash=3e9457f38a916dc7b97b7237e314f40bb2208273)
The Inner Race Bearing Puller quickly drew off the bearing and was also utilized to move it past the upper race surface. Six minutes. No [smiley=cowsleep.gif]
More fun to follow. Monte
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I didn't buy the inner race puller.
I took the rotary tool to the bearing cage, and caught all of the rollers with a magnet.
Then I very carefully cut a slit in the inner race. It popped right off with a screwdriver.
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The outer races of steering bearings are, well... out. [smiley=clap.gif]
The EK outer race puller is a bit more labor intensive than the inner bearing puller but does the job cleanly without damage to the bike's head stock.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOuterRace01.jpg&hash=0664a361f3918d2233341fabe005b0d4858342b6)
This is the heart of the outer race puller. Tightening the 27mm nut and the 3/8" hex expands the split washer behind the bearing race.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FExtractBearing01.jpg&hash=fbd803b05309706dd431934746d212d701b9b6e2)
A short steel tube is centered on the headstock and another 27mm nut -this one pressed into a heavy washer- is tightened up and withdraws the bearing race.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FOuterRacePuller02.jpg&hash=883eb596f1fd434db633fe2a2ded938c85c3f12a)
Here's the complete tooling plus the old races. I found it necessary to cut one-half inch off the bolt threads to permit a 27mm deep socket to capture the nut that expands the split washer. Otherwise, the process went smoothly. Could be a two-person job in expanding the split washer as it is a hardened little bugger and a challenge to draw down single-handed. I did get it done but shed a bit of blood in doing so.
Will wrap this thread with a couple photos of the installed new bearings. Monte
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Got an early start Saturday and installed the new steering bearings.
The outer races camped out in the freezer for two days. Unsure if it did any good as they warmed rapidly since I put a hot air gun on the head stock. ::)
The old outer races are useful to drive home the new races. Just line up the race and start with gently taps as you get the bearing race moving into its proper position.
With the top clamp holding everything in position, I moved on to the fork seals and felts. Actually, I moved on to cleaning out all the dirt and sludge in the lowers. Gag. What a mess.
Confirmed front springs are within spec for length. the nylon spacer rings are in good shape so will keep the new Motobins parts in inventory. Yo, Barry... I, too, space the end gaps of the three shim rings 120 degrees apart. I keep thinking piston rings.
After reading the DIY soda blaster article that ol' Phorqs posted, I believe I'll rob the pantry and try cleaning the fork lowers with the soda technique. Have everything else in the shop... for once! I'll get some before shots of the '83's nasty legs.
The original front brake line has been abused while hiding under the dash pad so I need to order up a new 'un.
I also fabbed up and installed the resistor mod for the alternator/generator warning light circuit. The '81 has the same deal; mandatory as I no longer run the stock gauges with the idiot lights.
Last item. The big split washer component -the sharp-edged one that you can shave with- got a bit boogered up during the first "pull" so I contacted Dan At Cycle Works about buying a replacement. Dan's really into customer service and satisfaction. He said he'd mail me a new one no charge. Y'all buy something from this guy.[smiley=beer.gif]
Busy but relaxing day spent messin' with the scoots. Ride tomorrow.
Monte
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Monte,
Will that tool, also remove the swing arm races ?
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I've emailed Dan at Cycle Works with your question. Probably Monday before we hear back. Monte
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Monte,
Will that tool, also remove the swing arm races ?
No, the swingarm races are a smaller diameter. There is a different tool for that. I bought it and give it a hearty two thumbs up.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F119387673%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=937f432bbf9fe5f8be900b11fb2bac0b10b84131)
Re: the thin black screws. There are 6 of them arranged in a circle. The heads of the screws (set level to each other) engage the inner lip of the bearing race. When the inner bolt gets tightened up, it applies force to the black screws, keeping them in place.
Then you pull the whole mess out with the ring and the large flat plate.
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BTW - both of my outer-race tools can be borrowed for free.
All I ask is that you hold on to them until someone else needs them.
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BTW - both of my outer-race tools can be borrowed for free. All I ask is that you hold on to them until someone else needs them.
That's very gracious of you, Rob. Which brings up an off-topic idea I've had for some time...
Several local groups I've belonged to over the years have had "tool cribs" where worthy members (read: trustworthy) could borrow specific use tools. I'm unsure how this might work out with an internet forum group but the idea might be worth considering.
If there is interest, perhaps we could begin a tool crib specific thread?
Monte
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There's a hole in my bucket... :(
Wanting to flush the filth outta the fork lowers, I needed some way to plug the large hole vacated by that big ol' Allen screw.
A vinyl plug (screw protector, vacuum cap, whatever) with an approx i.d. of 3/8" filled the hole neatly and made the job simple. Gently insert with a long cross-point screwdriver; extract with needle-nosed pliers.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FLowerPlug.jpg&hash=0e0ff5f5dc8c050cd5250610f0e5aad2de7e256f)
And the things you find while servicing these older bikes... The Allen screws at the top of the fork tubes? One screw had zero aluminum crush washers while its neighbor had three! Monte
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I just drained all of the fluids out of the LS this last week, and I would have to say that all of the metal crush washers, looked to be original, paper thin and 'oozing' onto the threads .
Also noticed the drain plugs on the lower fork tubes, aren't OEM, they are regular metric bolts .
Looks like someone stripped them out .
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...Also noticed the drain plugs on the lower fork tubes, aren't OEM, they are regular metric bolts. Looks like someone stripped them out.
UhOh [smiley=wall.gif] Don't the OEM Allen screws thread into the damper rod assembly? Has the rod been tapped for bigger/different threads or do you think just the screws were stripped and not the rod threads... Monte
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Not the Allen head bolts on the bottom of the fork leg, the small ones on the backside of the fork leg, that you drain the old fluid out of .
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Not the Allen head bolts on the bottom of the fork leg, the small ones on the backside of the fork leg, that you drain the old fluid out of .
Whew!