The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Bob_Roller on October 13, 2009, 06:38:28 PM
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I was working on the '84 LS today (only 95 F. (35 C.) in the garage), trying to get the fuel cap off, tried the rope over the garage door rail, and pulling on the rope, no success .
I did a search for stuck fuel cap, and came up with nothing useful .
Exactly where do you drill a hole from the top, and then place a pin, or other suitable part, to stop the cap from spinning ?
How long does the pin need to be ?
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Hi Bob
From memory (and it was an awfull long time ago that I did mine) the pin goes from the side, through an existing hole just above the threaded section. I really don't know if you can do that untill you get the cap off. You might be able to slide a flat screwdriver under the lip of the cap and tap it to get the lower part to turn, might help to spray some CRC in there to help unbind the thread.
I remember it was a PITA and I slightly damaged the plastic lip on the outer edge of the fuel cap trying to get it off.
I read that some people are driving a number of self tapper screws through the side but from my experience that is probably overkill, my single pin or nail or whatever I used has been in there for about 20 years without causing any further trouble.
Keep at it and good luck.
Bruce
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Bob - This happened to me, too. I got the info on snobum's site on what to do.. basically take off the outer plastic skirt and there are three holes in the side of the cap equidistant apart - find a thin nail, I used a 15 gauge finish nail, i think..push it thru one of the holes & turn the cap 'till you feel it engage a corresponding hole in the underneath part of the cap. It should then hold the 2 parts together & unscrew. You can then screw the 2 parts together using stainless screws, from underneath up, making them one & re-use the cap.. no more locking, though. It worked for me & i've used my cap successfully for the last 3 years.
Bill Conquest
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Bob, Hit Snowbum's site for his f-u-l-l explanation. Monte
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There are two different caps one with the BMW logo, and one without, I have the later model, no holes under the ring, I removed it just to be sure .
My only other option, is to drill a hole from the top, and put in a pin, or a self tapping screw .
I plan on using a drywall screw .
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I was told the cap with the BMW logo you drill throught the "M" if theres no logo you may have to go compair the position with one with it.
Lou
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Hi Bob, I wouldn't drill through the top, I have the same cap as yours, give me a few hours and at lunchtime I will have a look at it and see if I can give any more info on where I put the pin.
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I went to Snowbum's BMW site, and he states that you can drill through the top on the later cap, but you need to go just about all the way through the cap .
I think I have found a suitable countersunk screw at work, it is long enough to go through the entire cap, and then put a nut on the fuel side .
I don't intend to start on this until Monday, so any comments before then are welcome .
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Bob,
I've got a drilled one that I can take apart and photograph. Look for some images that I'll post tomorrow - or the day after if I forget (oops). Mark
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Hi Bob
I had a good look at my cap tonight. There is no sign of any pin, I am sure I drove it through one of the 2 existing holes in the side of the threaded section of the cap, just above the thread. The threaded lower part of the cap turns back and forth about 1/4 inch.
I can still see the screwdriver marks underneath the plastic lip from where I levered the cap off when it got stuck.
As I said above, if you can persist and get the cap off you can then fix it permanently without drilling any holes and adding any screws where they will be seen.
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All, Images of my "drilled" cap below. You can see that it has been attacked many times. I think the real secret to getting the cap part off the threaded section is confident brute force. If it is on the tank on the bike, a rope through the cap "flap" and a very good tug might do it, but I've never had a cap stuck on the bike and had to do this. Off the bike, a pair of opposed screwdriver/levers under the cap and it pops off. Mark
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Thanks for the pictures .
I put a light oil in the lock assembly on Tuesday, tomorrow, I'm going to give the rope method one more try, if it doesn't work, then I'll drill all the way through the cap, according to Snowbum's site, you can drill a hole where the fold down part of the cap will cover it up .
I've got a 2.5 inch stainless screw, and a self locking nut, I'm sure this will solve the problem once and for all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bob, Don't forget to slosh out the metal bits from the tank after getting the cap off. Probably needs a bath anyway. Monte
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There's still a bit of old fuel in the tank, I'll put some alcohol in there and get the metal shavings out .
This tank does have the metal mesh screen over the inlet tubes of the fuel tap, I'm not getting too concerned, if a few metal shavings are still in there .
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Bob, In case it is not clear, the groove/rebate in the body “A” has a counterpart in the cap “B” that, when pressed together as an assembly, joins the parts yet allows the cap to rotate. When it is working correctly, the key mechanism can be used to lock the two parts together. Drilling and screwing the parts together does the same as the latter, but permanently. I think the reason for the specific measurements I have seen is so that the hole that is drilled clears the bosses/ridges cast into the cap “C”. It might be possible to drill as you suggest so that the effects are hidden by the cap's folding lever, which would be in the area “O”. The cap pictured is one that was already “customized” when I bought my R65 and is a spare (I bought a new one), so I’d be happy to do some experimenting if you like and can wait (I’m off for a relatively chilly - high 50’s low 60’s - but sunny trip to the north Georgia Mountains for a few days). Good luck. Mark
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Thanks for the pictures, it clears up, whats in there, it looks like most of it is a plastic material, with an aluminum casting .
I don't think the cobalt drill bit will have much difficulty getting through the various layers .
The screw that I have is countersunk, so all I have to do after drilling it, is making a concave dimple in the metal, paint the screw black, and you'll never see it, until you open the hinged part of the cap to refuel .
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Hi Bob, attached is a photo of the top of my fuel cap with no holes or screws, the second photo is the side view showing the hole through which I pinned the cap to lock the top to the thread.
I think that the lock would need to be locked and the pin would go into the lock barrel.
I know this doesn't help get the stuck cap off but if you can get it off somehow it is a lot neater than the screw down through the top.
The photo also shows where the screwdriver marked the underside of the plastic skirt, I think I levered it up to get enough pressure to bind the halves while I unscewed it.
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OK. Quandary resolved.
Way back, I had purchased a used replacement fuel cap from Re-Psycled http://re-psycle.com/ after my original cap stopped venting properly and regularly.
The plastic trim ring had a small dent/lift that I looked at for, oh, a nano-second. Bruce's photo and response may have explained it!
Thanks for the photos and ideas, Bruce.
Monte
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i had this problem,i found that if you put the bike on the centre stand and tie a rope onto the filler cap and over the garage roof truss and tie it off tightly,then just roll the bike off the stand and out she popped
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My fuelcap was seized the bike had been stood for the best part of 10 years i soaked the thread chamber with plus gas for a couple of days then used a drill with a bit of steel round bar 1/4 inch ish put the drill on hammer and gave the top a good vibration through a protective piece of plastic and off it came.....i describe it as the "Beach boy" effect.
Lou
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Alright, there's a method I hadn't thought of, I've got an air hammer, used for driving rivets, I'll give it a 'whack' and see what happens .
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Went out to the garage, looked for my air hammer, then realized, it's at work .
So I tried a piece of hardwood, and a 5 pound (2 kg) hammer, 5 hits, and success the cap came off, still not willingly .
The not so good news, the inside of the tank appears to be rusted up pretty good .
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Bob, Don't forget to slosh out the metal bits from the tank after getting the cap off. Probably needs a bath anyway.
There's still a bit of old fuel in the tank, I'll put some alcohol in there and get the metal shavings out.
This tank does have the metal mesh screen over the inlet tubes of the fuel tap, I'm not getting too concerned, if a few metal shavings are still in there.
Mr. Murphy just entered your garage! :(
Monte
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I have to admit, the rust surprised me, due to the dry climate here .
But it doesn't look like it will be difficult to remove .
I sprayed carburetor cleaner into the tank, the rust, and original red liner came right off, leaving bare metal .