The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: beemer on July 12, 2009, 06:59:09 AM
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Been out for a ride this morning,bike is hesitant between 60 to 70mph,keep twisting the throttle but no increase in speed?in line fuel filter is full,ive recently adjusted the carbs and it's pulling like a train till you reach 60mph,air cleaner ok,choke not sticking,float bowls full,valve clearances all ok,changed coil,all seems fine,this is a 83 R65LS with electronic ignition,help please!!!thanks,Julian.
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Done anything with the diaphragms lately? Several recent posts by riders with oh so similar problems have traced the issue to using heavier than stock replacement diaphragms. The fix is going back to the lighter rubber bits and/or raising the needle one notch.
"ive (sic) recently adjusted the carbs." That would be a starting point to find your problem. Did it pull past 60 before the carb work? Did you use a manometer for balancing? What adjustments were made?
Can be frustrating. The fix is usually something very simple. Finding it is the challenge. Luck to you... Monte
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Done anything with the diaphragms lately? Several recent posts by riders with oh so similar problems have traced the issue to using heavier than stock replacement diaphragms. The fix is going back to the lighter rubber bits and/or raising the needle one notch.
"ive (sic) recently adjusted the carbs." That would be a starting point to find your problem. Did it pull past 60 before the carb work? Did you use a manometer for balancing? What adjustments were made?
Cab be frustrating. The fix is usually something very simple. Finding it is the challenge. Luck to you... Monte
Mixture and balance was done to the carbs,it was slightly hesitant before,but has got worse now,no didn't use a monometer,i did it by ear this time,but iv'e just come indoors after another check and monometer tune,and it's still the same.plugs are a nice grey colour,so mixture seems ok.
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If it revs up ok when in neutral, then, this sounds very 'carby' to me. If you just did a carb rebuild all those pesky tight screws n nuts should be loose enough to allow for a quick re-strip to check all is as it should be or, hopefully discover the problem.
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I want to check the diaphrams tomorrow,how do i go about it?and what am i looking for?thanks,Julian
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The domed tops of the carbs must come off. Simple, as long as the cross-point screws have not bonded themselves to the carb body. [smiley=angry.gif] Be sure the screws can be removed before proceeding further.
You'll need to detach the throttle and choke cables. Here's a way to do it without messing up four cable adjustments...
1. Disconnect fuel lines at the carbs;
2. Loosen the clamps holding both ends of the carbs to the rubber connectors and air box;
3. Slide the rear rubber connector tube down onto the hard plastic elbow;
4. Gently rotate the carbs to permit releasing the cables at the carb connections;
5. Removing the top cover will take away the cables and retain the current slack adjustment positions.
Diaphragms may develop tiny almost invisible tears. Also, be sure the locating tabs on the diaphragms perimeter are returned to the small notch in the carb body. Too, the metal "caps" in the top of the domes can develop leaks. I've seen black RTV, epoxy, dimes and BMW roundels glued on as leak stoppers.
I you have not done so, buy a manual for your own peace of mind ;)
Monte -Guys. What have I forgotten to tell Julian?
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I took the left hand carb cover off this morning and found a small tear in the diaphram,so i removed both carbs,the right hand carb is fine,but i have orderd 2 new diaphram's and will replace them both,one screw in each cover was buggered!!!!the crosshead was chewed up,i managed to get the one from the left hand carb off tapping round gently with a small chisel,the right hand one had to be drilled out!!!i have also ordered a set of 4 stainless screws for the rebuild,SO!!!just have to wait till the new parts come,maybe tomorrow?i can't see how you remove the needle,if for instance if i was going to replace it in another position?will keep you updated as soon as the job is done,fingers crossed it will run ok after that,by the way,how can you tell if the dome on the top cover is leaking air?think i should run a bead of epoxy round it just in case?Julian.
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Following edited info is credited to the Snowbum site:
"LEAKY TOP PLUGS
Some carburetors have had leaky steel plugs on the domes. You can easily test the plugs for leaks when the domes are off for servicing the carburetors. DO NOT allow any leaks; it will act like a torn diaphragm. They can be crimped or epoxied. There is a BMW Roundel that can be epoxied to the top of the carburetors."
Julian, grab the fatter part of the needle where it exits the vacuum slide using some thin leather and needlenosed pliers to turn the needle 90 degrees. Pull on it and it should move to the next notch. Now, turn it 90 degrees to the next notch, etc. Do not mess up the needle.
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Following edited info is credited to the Snowbum site:
"LEAKY TOP PLUGS
Some carburetors have had leaky steel plugs on the domes. You can easily test the plugs for leaks when the domes are off for servicing the carburetors. DO NOT allow any leaks; it will act like a torn diaphragm. They can be crimped or epoxied. There is a BMW Roundel that can be epoxied to the top of the carburetors."
Julian, grab the fatter part of the needle where it exits the vacuum slide using some thin leather and needlenosed pliers to turn the needle 90 degrees. Pull on it and it should move to the next notch. Now, turn it 90 degrees to the next notch, etc. Do not mess up the needle.
Thanks Mont,iv'e just put some epoxy on the domes,a thin smear,so if there is a leak it should seal it up,fingers crossed!!!thanks for the needle tip,i don't want to mess with it(yet),but it's good to know how to do it,i ordered the diaphrams from motorworks,they had 2 types,a european type,and the bings,i got the bings,he said they are much softer and plyable,so,will wait for them to arrive,and take my time and re-assemble them,i hope it's going to be a success,Julian.
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You did good, Julian. The non-Bing diaphragms sold by several outfits have caused multiple tuning, synch'ing and various driveability problems after the rebuilds. Right choice, eh, Lucky Lou? Monte
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You did good, Julian. The non-Bing diaphragms sold by several outfits have caused multiple tuning, synch'ing and various driveability problems after the rebuilds. Right choice, eh, Lucky Lou? Monte
I remember the threads Monte on the problems with non bing units so i didn't want to go over it again if i didn't have too,iv'e just measured the length of the needles,they are both the same,i just wanted to know!julian.As a matter of interest,what is the metrail Hydrin?look here,
http://www.motobins.co.uk/displayfinal.php?function=show&subs=084&title=DIAPHRAGMS+%26+GASKETS
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While you're waiting for that replacement diaphragm SUPERGLUE will provide an effective temporary fix.
After carefully glueing, I managed to get about 1,500 miles from an R100RS carb diaphragm, before replacement. Meaning not a single day of dry sunny riding weather was missed. So a valuable repair for us in northern Europe.
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You did good, Julian. The non-Bing diaphragms sold by several outfits have caused multiple tuning, synch'ing and various driveability problems after the rebuilds. Right choice, eh, Lucky Lou? Monte
spot on spare yourself all the greif ive had with the generic ones BTW are you useing any fuel addative?
Lou
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You did good, Julian. The non-Bing diaphragms sold by several outfits have caused multiple tuning, synch'ing and various driveability problems after the rebuilds. Right choice, eh, Lucky Lou? Monte
spot on spare yourself all the greif ive had with the generic ones BTW are you useing any fuel addative?
Lou
I use a drop in the tank unit,Julian.
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As a matter of interest,what is the metrail Hydrin?
Those are the thicker, aftermarket, non-Bing diaphragms. Half the Bing price with twice the tuning issues. ;D
Monte
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As a matter of interest,what is the metrail Hydrin?
Those are the thicker, aftermarket, non-Bing diaphragms. Half the Bing price with twice the tuning issues. ;D
Monte
I don't know why they sell these when people have so much hassle with them,as a matter of interest i spoke to motorworks and the guy i was talking to said he owns a r65 fitted with the after market type and he has had no problems!you go figure!!!i think the no risk bings are the way to go!Julian.
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Check out my post "Blown another diaphragm" in this section currently on page 3 ive given up on additives for the time being......i may risk them again soon when im confident the Bing diaphragms are the solution anyone having issues with revs not shutting down should consider replacing the diaphragms with Bing original and research the ingredients of the additives being used on page 5 is my post fuel additive test the pictures of the affect of the additive on the diaphragm will shock you.This was the effect of only one hours exposure.
Lou
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Check out my post "Blown another diaphragm" in this section currently on page 3 ive given up on additives for the time being......i may risk them again soon when im confident the Bing diaphragms are the solution anyone having issues with revs not shutting down should consider replacing the diaphragms with Bing original and research the ingredients of the additives being used on page 5 is my post fuel additive test the pictures of the affect of the additive on the diaphragm will shock you.This was the effect of only one hours exposure.
Lou
This is what i use,it's not a addative as such but changes the structure of the fuel,have a look at the "can i use it on my motorcyle question,i spoke to the guy before i decided to use it,Steve Hawkins has been using it for years,his bike has 110k on the clock,Julian.
http://www.fuelcat.co.uk/faq.html
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Well the diaphrams came today,put them in and the bike runs fine,but won't know for sure till i get a chance to go for a good ride,weather is rainy now,so might be at the weekend,will keep you updated,Julian.
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Beemer I suspect any repair or upgrade to you bike is what causes it to rain the more rewarding or necessary the ride harder it pours...
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Beemer I suspect any repair or upgrade to you bike is what causes it to rain the more rewarding or necessary the ride harder it pours...
Yes you could be right!!! ;D
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UPDATE!!!just got back from a run,bike is great now,pulling like a train and no more hesitance!!so the diaphram change sorted it out,it's idling so smooth now i thought it had stopped when i stopped at a junction!!and when i checked the colour of the plugs when i got back home,i was pleased to see both in a lovely mid grey colour,SO!!!job seems to be a good un!!thanks for everyones help,Julian. :)
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Julian, Check your quiet idle revs. Your R65 would like about 1050 on the tach. That'll keep the oil pumping into the timing chain case. Monte
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Julian, Check your quiet idle revs. Your R65 would like about 1050 on the tach. That'll keep the oil pumping into the timing chain case. Monte
Yep it's doing that Monte,in fact it's just below 1100,around 1080,Julian.
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The Red Tomato rocks [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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i have had same symptons as you beemer and it turned out to be the plug leads,try replacing them if your diahragms dont do the trick,pete
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Rock on Beemer!
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Rock on Beemer!
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i have had same symptons as you beemer and it turned out to be the plug leads,try replacing them if your diahragms dont do the trick,pete
I will remember that Pete,thanks,Julian.
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As a matter of interest,what meterial is the original BMW HT Leads made from?are they silicone?they seem to be the popular "thing"nowdays,and if you make your own,as i do,what have you found to be the best cable to get?cheers,Julian.
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As a matter of interest,what meterial is the original BMW HT Leads made from?are they silicone?they seem to be the popular "thing"nowdays,and if you make your own,as i do,what have you found to be the best cable to get?cheers,Julian.
I bought a pair of the origonal metal clad ones for my restoration but they are a sealed unit with both ends molded so i could not tell you what the conductor is,
Lou
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The actual wires are stranded, I don't believe the jacket is silicone. I use Belden 7mm stranded core spark plug wire and NGK 5 kohm plug caps.
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I've been pleased with the parts selection, quality, prices and delivery from MikesXS - ignition leads and NGK caps and plugs.
http://www.mikesxs.net/products-27.html#products
Check out the entire catalog as he offers numerous bits that are BMW friendly. Monte
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I've been pleased with the parts selection, quality, prices and delivery from MikesXS - ignition leads and NGK caps and plugs.
http://www.mikesxs.net/products-27.html#products
Check out the entire catalog as he offers numerous bits that are BMW friendly. Monte
That's a great web site.loads of interesting stuff !!!Julian.