The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2

Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: beemer on July 06, 2009, 07:09:55 AM

Title: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 06, 2009, 07:09:55 AM
Iv'e reset my carbs as part of a full service!mixture and balance adjustment,i want to ask a question!!!when you rev the bike,how long should it take for the engine to settle back to it's tickover speed?i'm not sure,because i never took a note of it,but now the engine seems to take a bit longer to settle,so if i rev to say 4-5k it's slower to settle back to tickover,hope i'm making sense here!!!is it too lean?i did all adjustments per the BMW and Haynes manuals,and of course the great help on this site,thanks,J.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: weasel01 on July 06, 2009, 08:41:51 AM
i'm a total noob at this but spent the weekend fiddling around with it and found it takes some adjust go for a ride adjust go for a ride etc... till it stays put.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: Bob_Roller on July 06, 2009, 09:14:59 AM
A common cause for the extended time to return to idle, is doing the carb adjustments on an engine that is not up to operating temperature .

Seeing as how you don't know if this was happening before you did your carb adjustments, a sticking  centrifugal advance mechanism in the 'bean can', that's the part that has the Hall effect sensor and advance mechanism under the front cover of the engine can cause a similar problem .

But personally, I would re-do your carb adjustments on a properly warmed up engine .
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 06, 2009, 09:28:15 AM
Quote
A common cause for the extended time to return to idle, is doing the carb adjustments on an engine that is not up to operating temperature .

Seeing as how you don't know if this was happening before you did your carb adjustments, a sticking  centrifugal advance mechanism in the 'bean can', that's the part that has the Hall effect sensor and advance mechanism under the front cover of the engine can cause a similar problem .

But personally, I would re-do your carb adjustments on a properly warmed up engine .
It was warmed up Bob,thanks,J.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: Bob_Roller on July 06, 2009, 09:36:45 AM
An overly rich idle mixture can cause this too, the R65 owners manual states that after you get the mixture set to the highest rpm, that you are to turn the mixture screw in 1/4th turn .

I don't know if this will work or not !
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 06, 2009, 11:15:38 AM
Quote
An overly rich idle mixture can cause this too, the R65 owners manual states that after you get the mixture set to the highest rpm, that you are to turn the mixture screw in 1/4th turn .

I don't know if this will work or not !
Ive been playing around with it and nearly there,i just have a small amount of popping on one exhaust,does this mean it's to rich?
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: montmil on July 06, 2009, 11:17:51 AM
Confirm that your throttle cables have not be re-routed during the carb service work. I had a similar issue and corrected the cable runs.

Also, make sure your throttle stop screw -under the twist grip- is not dragging... Unless it's previously gone AWOL. Also, grips can rub on the throttle/switch block and/or have to much grease on the handlebar and throttle tube.

Monte
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: Bob_Roller on July 06, 2009, 11:21:43 AM
Usually popping from the exhaust is indicative of a rich mixture, the oxygen is already consumed by combustion, but there is still unburned fuel in there, and when it gets out to the exhaust system, it can explode when it finally gets enough oxygen to burn the remaining fuel  .
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 06, 2009, 11:38:50 AM
I will check these thing out!!and if all is well with the twistgrip,just check the mixture again,thanks for the help guys,J.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: weasel01 on July 06, 2009, 05:55:04 PM
Bob, when adjusting my carbs recently I found that when I started with the recommended 3/4 turn the bike idled well but if I went a 1/4 turn up or back the idle speed went down and the engine sounded poorly?
Should I have gone beyond 3/4 turn?
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: Bob_Roller on July 06, 2009, 06:16:47 PM
If your bike runs good to you, I wouldn't change a thing .

This may have been more of an exaust emissions concern, rather than an operating concern .
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: montmil on July 06, 2009, 06:36:49 PM
Quote
...I started with the recommended 3/4 turn the bike idled well but if I went a 1/4 turn up or back the idle speed went down and the engine sounded poorly? Should I have gone beyond 3/4 turn?

The air screw can be pretty sensitive to position and changes. Even the Snowbum mentions that in or out chenges of the air screw should probably be no more than the screwdriver's blade thickness. I'm guessing 1/16 turn either way off of the spec 3/4 turn out. That ain't much.

Monte
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: weasel01 on July 06, 2009, 09:07:13 PM
In the how to section there is an article about carb sync and it recommends to unplug one sparkplug to set the max idle speed with the airmix screw of the oposite cylinder then switch. this doesnt apply to electronic ignition does it?.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: nhmaf on July 06, 2009, 09:53:41 PM
The 'one cylinder at a time approach can be troublesome to the electronic ignition bikes unless you make sure that the plug wire is still connected to a grounded (to engine) spark plug.  I generally don't follow that approach.

The slight popping on exhaust, especially if revving up to higher revs ~6K and just letting loose of the throttle is often due to the action of the "pulse air" injection system - if you still have it on the bike, if the mixture is otherwise good.   My R65LS mixture (from exam of new plugs) is just about ideal, or maybe ever so slightly lean, and it will make some "pops" under this condition as it still has those darn snorkels (they should shut off under closed throttle, but don't always quickly enough -> extra shot of air into exhaust stream under trailing throttle yields light popping/crackling - helps me to keep up with the H-D crowd, though!
;-)
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 07, 2009, 01:49:14 AM
The bike seems fine now,after going throught the balancing act a few times,it just takes time to get it correct,as mentioned,1/16 makes a hell of a difference to the way it runs,all the popping has gone now,and she runs very smooth at 1050rpm(65LS)thanks for all the advice,the throttle cables are all fine with no binding,i used my ears this time,(being a musician,it was tuned to B, ;D,)Thanks,guys,Julian.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: montmil on July 07, 2009, 06:43:37 AM
 [smiley=clap.gif] Wheee! The Disorganized R65 Forum... Saving Bings around the world. Ride on, Julian, Gotta love it.   Monte
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: Lucky_Lou on July 07, 2009, 07:39:20 AM
Quote
,i used my ears this time,(being a musician,it was tuned to B, ;D,)Thanks,guys,Julian.
I guess you play Dobro then!!
Lou
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 07, 2009, 08:44:48 AM
Quote
Quote
,i used my ears this time,(being a musician,it was tuned to B, ;D,)Thanks,guys,Julian.
I guess you play Dobro then!!
Lou
Double bass and electric basses 4,5 and 6 string,mainly jazz,Miles Davis,Coltrane,but anything really, i get called for, as long as it pays!!!gotta keep my bike on the road ;)
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 07, 2009, 08:50:21 AM
Quote
[smiley=clap.gif] Wheee! The Disorganized R65 Forum... Saving Bings around the world. Ride on, Julian, Gotta love it.   Monte
Yes Monte,this forum is really helpfull!can't beat it!by the way,when i took off the twistgrip to lube it,i saw the lineup mark on the cable connector/chain,but none on the twistgrip itself?i only mention this as the Haynes manual shows how to line them up?i guess some bikes didn't have this then?Julian.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: montmil on July 07, 2009, 09:04:18 AM
My line up mark on the '81 is almost invisible. Sometimes, ya just gotta set 'em by ear.  ;)
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 07, 2009, 09:08:58 AM
Quote
My line up mark on the '81 is almost invisible. Sometimes, ya just gotta set 'em by ear.  ;)
Ha!Ha!i like it ;D
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: MrRiden on July 07, 2009, 06:28:40 PM
Quote
In the how to section there is an article about carb sync and it recommends to unplug one sparkplug to set the max idle speed with the airmix screw of the oposite cylinder then switch. this doesnt apply to electronic ignition does it?.

Rather than unplugging a spark plug [which can be fatal to the ICU] you can fashion an extension using a length or proper sized screw [sorry I forgot what I used] and a spare plug top lug then employing a nice long, well insulated screw driver ground each plug briefly to determine the running speed of the opposing cylinder. Probably safest to touch the blade of the screw driver to ground before moving the shank up against the exposed extension on the plug. I carry two in my roll.
Like so:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm70%2Fmrridden%2FP1010001.jpg&hash=b8f58a65ea6028dc79152d31516f61986b93c377)
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: weasel01 on July 07, 2009, 07:19:26 PM
I synced the carbs Saturday rode for a while Sunday came back and with the bike still hot I hooked the manometer back up and re-tweaked here and there rode to work Monday went for a long ride got back to the house hooked it up again fine tuned again rode to work today and then a nice ride home today and it is feeling very very good it idles smoothly and I dont feel the need to tweak any longer "on the carbs". acceleration is super smooth all thru the band and I feel like I understand the ins and outs of this machine more and more everyday.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 08, 2009, 04:08:20 AM
Quote
Quote
In the how to section there is an article about carb sync and it recommends to unplug one sparkplug to set the max idle speed with the airmix screw of the oposite cylinder then switch. this doesnt apply to electronic ignition does it?.

Rather than unplugging a spark plug [which can be fatal to the ICU] you can fashion an extension using a length or proper sized screw [sorry I forgot what I used] and a spare plug top lug then employing a nice long, well insulated screw driver ground each plug briefly to determine the running speed of the opposing cylinder. Probably safest to touch the blade of the screw driver to ground before moving the shank up against the exposed extension on the plug. I carry two in my roll.
Like so:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm70%2Fmrridden%2FP1010001.jpg&hash=b8f58a65ea6028dc79152d31516f61986b93c377)
I did think of doing this also,but i;m afraid a shyed away from it!one slip and your ignition is cooked!!!iv'e learned to listen to what the bike is saying to me,and found it works a treat,J.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: weasel01 on July 08, 2009, 09:00:02 AM
I was able to adjust each side for the highest by ear with both running.
It's pretty evident as you turn it with you ear fairly close to corresponding cylinder.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 08, 2009, 09:07:42 AM
Quote
I was able to adjust each side for the highest by ear with both running.
It's pretty evident as you turn it with you ear fairly close to corresponding cylinder.
Yers,that's how i did it too.
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: weasel01 on July 08, 2009, 10:10:07 AM
I dont think there is any fear of damage with the above sparkplug configuration....it's loaded no matter if you ground it or not.
As long as the spark plug stays connected to the extension it is either sparking or grounded but at no point would it be un loaded which is what would cause damage ...looks like a good setup to me...
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: beemer on July 08, 2009, 04:26:38 PM
Quote
I dont think there is any fear of damage with the above sparkplug configuration....it's loaded no matter if you ground it or not.
As long as the spark plug stays connected to the extension it is either sparking or grounded but at no point would it be un loaded which is what would cause damage ...looks like a good setup to me...
It's a great idea,but if you wanted to adjust your mixture on one pot at a time then you would need to find a more permanent way to short out the plug on the opposite side,maybe crock clips?
Title: Re: Carb help please!!!
Post by: Bob_Roller on July 08, 2009, 05:51:37 PM
I've always wondered where the 'myth' that you will damage the ICU, if you have the spark plug lead disconnected, and either turn the engine over with the starter, or run the engine in this configuration ?

The ICU is connected to the primary circuit of the coil, and there is an 'air gap' between the primary and secondary circuits in the coil, so there is no direct electrical connection between the ICU and the spark plug lead .