The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: jhebass01 on February 20, 2007, 06:35:56 PM
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Hi. I've got the USA bars on my '83, and since installing my S fairing, reading this: http://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/lowbars.htm, and generally favoring a lower-slung look, I'm interested in picking up some low bars. Anyone have experience with Flanders? http://www.sideroadcycles.com/ImportedMotorcycles/ImportHandlebars/BMWbars/MaguraBMW.html
Any thoughts on the transition from high to low?
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I don't know why your link to Duane's page didn't work for me. (not directly, anyway). When I got to it, the URL was exactly what you posted.
I have no personal experience with Flanders. Just make sure the control castings fit comfortably (diameter - 22mm). If the bar diameter is too large, it can crack the castings when you tighten them down.
Personally, I love my low bars. I knew when I bought the bike new that I was going to have the dealer retrofit them. He refused to do it when I picked it up, only doing it on my 500 mi tune-up, instead...
The only reason I have wanted higher bars is to have more chrome showing to bolt stuff onto. I finally bought a 2nd dash panel and cut it up to allow for a small windshield for cold weather.
I cannot add anything new that Duane did not cover on his page.
If you think you want them, you will probably love them. If you are unsure, then it is probably 50/50 that you will still like them. Different folks, you know.
Oh yeah, I even once went so far as to buy a pair of RS bars for my R65, but the dash panel (again) got in the way of the master cylinder.
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I'm looking at RS bars for my RS upgrade, too, and someone else pointed me at Flanders but it didn't seem like I could find an exact bar match on their site.
I'm not going to install stock electric grips, even though the RT's heated grips were most fine, I'm liking the idea of the velcro wrap external models.
But all is moot as the Blueberry continues to languish due to busy schedules and fx shoulder pangs. :P
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I don't know why your link to Duane's page didn't work for me. (not directly, anyway). When I got to it, the URL was exactly what you posted.
Somehow J's link had an extra comma added ot the end. Should read:
http://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/lowbars.htm
:-*
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I don't know why your link to Duane's page didn't work for me. (not directly, anyway). When I got to it, the URL was exactly what you posted.
Somehow J's link had an extra comma added ot the end. Should read:
http://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/lowbars.htm
:-*
Yeah, that would do it! "Sharp Eye Joanie" they call her!
(better than sharp stick in the eye Joanie - ;) *ouch!*)
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I'm looking at RS bars for my RS upgrade, too, and someone else pointed me at Flanders but it didn't seem like I could find an exact bar match on their site.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideroadcycles.com%2FImportedMotorcycles%2FImportHandlebars%2Fimages%2FSRC65004031.gif&hash=b6f332467476982940ff41f88d75f448c0a0afa1)
At the bottom of this page:
http://www.sideroadcycles.com/ImportedMotorcycles/ImportHandlebars/BMWbars/FlanBMW2.html
They look EXACTLY like the pair of factory bars I had. They are mis-named on Flander's site...
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I have been wanting some low bars for a while and found that Bobs has 'em cheaper than the Flanders. Part#32711241871 for $70.39 before shipping. Think I may order these but please let me know how you make out.
Rich
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I'm looking at RS bars for my RS upgrade, too, and someone else pointed me at Flanders but it didn't seem like I could find an exact bar match on their site.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideroadcycles.com%2FImportedMotorcycles%2FImportHandlebars%2Fimages%2FSRC65004031.gif&hash=b6f332467476982940ff41f88d75f448c0a0afa1)
At the bottom of this page:
http://www.sideroadcycles.com/ImportedMotorcycles/ImportHandlebars/BMWbars/FlanBMW2.html
They look EXACTLY like the pair of factory bars I had. They are mis-named on Flander's site...
ROOOOooooOOOOOOB! I bow down to your awesome handlebarfinderness! :-* :-* :-*
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ROOOOooooOOOOOOB! I bow down to your awesome handlebarfinderness! :-* :-* :-*
Oh pshaw...twern't nuthin... ::)
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I went from the high USA style bars on my 82 LS to the low euro bars. Since I am over 6 feet tall, the
extra reach to the bars and less mechanical leverage didn't bother me at all, and I actually welcomed
not having my hands way back in a "sit up and beg" type of posture. But, depending on how tall you are,
they may be hard on your back. My wife says that I have "ape arms", so reaching the grips is no challenge
for me and doesn't require any stretching. The LS models in particular look best with the low euro bars, I think.
I gave my high USA bars to Kling Tut to use on his machine, but somewhere I think that I have some comparison
pictures.
Some drawbacks, though:
1. I really like the look of bar end mirrors (Napolean) and bought them, but with the cowling on the LS, I cannot get the
controls and throttle grip far enough towards the middle to enable the bar end mirror on the right to grip the inside of
the handlebar tube and not the throttle tube. Well, after riding around the BMWMOA rally last year with saddlebags
I couldn't see much else in the mirrors, so I'll possibly have to add the mirrors-on-stalk kind to get a better rear view.
2. You WILL have to replace the upper brake hose (At least on the LS, which has dual brake lines going into a Y junction
behind the headlight, and a short line from there to the master cylinder. Also on the LS, at least - you'll need to replace
the clutch cable. The choke and throttle cables might be able to be routed/relocated so you don't have to replace them.
On the LS, these cables consist of a shorter upper cable that goes into a cylindrical "splitter", where (2) separate cables come
out the back and go to each carb. I replaced the upper cables on mine (though am also replacing the lower ones just cause they
are getting worn/frayed.
-mike
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A long time ago I had Magura bar end mirrors. They were cool, but a bit of a hassle to adjust and keep in place. Then when I installed the heated grips, the bar end mirrors had to go due to conflict with the wires (can be gotten around, I hear). I like my long stem BMW mirrors just fine (they are black!!!).
I would say I am of average height and stature. About 5'10" (178cm), 170lbs (77kg), and I don't think I have ape-like arms! ;)
I think the lower bars would be more of a problem in city traffic without the airflow to push you back. But then I know I "look so cool" (enter ego [smiley=evil.gif]...) that it is not a problem! [smiley=1drink.gif]
Yes, a change in brake line is necessary.
On the standard model the clutch cable is not a big deal, there is just a bit more of a loop down near the front of the engine. I know, because I finally got around to putting a short cable on mine last year.
Leverage is not really an issue with proper sized tires. I mean, we are talking about the best airhead BMW ever built, here, remember?
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Mike, Rob... I need more explaining about this change to the brake line. You're talking about the upper brake line, from the lever/handlebar MC to the splitter, yes? Is the original one too short? Too long?
Good thing I've ridden an RS before and know the position will be comfy. Sure, it's a lot of work switching to the low bars with new cables, grips and all, but woooooo... I think it was The [smiley=evil.gif] Lowen who said having the low bars and rear sets on the wee bike connects you to the road like no other! ;D
Summer before last I got a chance to deliver a stunning metallic green R100RS to another state, and POW! The RS bug bit me hot and hard, even though I had to shove the thing around the corners, it felt so muscular! Kind of like having the reins of a rocket in your hands. ;)
Justin? You've ridden the beautiful grey R65RS in your garage, right? Didn't you put low bars on it?
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Joan, it had low bars on it when we got it. I hate 'em...
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Joan -
Yes, the upper brake line from the master cylinder housing to the splitter behind the headlight needs to be replaced to
a shorter version when going from the USA bars to the low bars. The USA-bar cable is several inches too long and the cable
is not of the type that you can make the slack/loop go anywhere good. It is too stiff and you also really don't want the thing to
get pinched and cause braking failure. :o
It is fairly simple to install the shorter cable when you are ready to do so. I don't have the part number handy but I bought
one from Bob's, I think, who had it in stock. Just be sure that they know this is for the low bar application. You'll have to
bleed and refill the brake fluid of course, but you know how to do that.
When replacing the clutch cable, be sure to check that it pivots nicely in the hole at the hand lever end - sometimes that hole
develops burrs and the cable flexes instead of pivoting/rotating freely. this can cause a new clutch cable to break at the point
of flexing within weeks. If the hole in the lever has some minor ridges or rough spots, you can often sand them down and put
a light coat of grease in the hole/end of cable to help it out.
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Joan -
Yes, the upper brake line from the master cylinder housing to the splitter behind the headlight needs to be replaced to
a shorter version when going from the USA bars to the low bars. The USA-bar cable is several inches too long and the cable
is not of the type that you can make the slack/loop go anywhere good. It is too stiff and you also really don't want the thing to
get pinched and cause braking failure. :o
Thanks, Mike!
And thankfully, I think, my only braking failure has been operator error. :-[
Hopefully when I can twirl wrenches with both arms I'll get back to my RS project. Got everything but new control cables and that new bar.
Think I'll wait on the new low bar, though, unless someone has one they're in a hurry to get rid of. Right now I'm CERTAIN that leaning over in my fave RS position is not compatible with the healing shoulder fracture, and dammit, it's already been healing for six months. >:( ****in' dirt bike! Argh!
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Here is a lay-out of the peices from my '79. It is the rubber line coming off the master cylinder that needs replaced. This is the short one. For RS bars, you might need shorter still, or just bend that first metal tube a little.
If your bike is a '81+, the layout may be different.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F64538398%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=629cf9ce5dff92c3d460cb2c7952caece882860d)
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Here is a lay-out of the peices from my '79. It is the rubber line coming off the master cylinder that needs replaced. This is the short one. For RS bars, you might need shorter still, or just bend that first metal tube a little.
If your bike is a '81+, the layout may be different.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Ftomfarr%2Fimage%2F64538398%2Fmedium.jpg&hash=629cf9ce5dff92c3d460cb2c7952caece882860d)
Whoa... I wonder if it's the model year difference or replacement part on mine, but Blueberry the '83 has a rectangular bar mount mc, with a single rubber brake line down to the metal tube of the single caliper. No splitter attached, BU TT a splitter, extra caliper and disk came in a box from the previous owner. He did claim it had an R80 fork on it. Hmmm. Very interesting.
Thanks for the pic, Rob! This is illuminating!
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'79, '80' and a few '81's had the round style master cylinder before they switched to the rectangular style in '81.
The round style master cylinders had a short brake hose that went to the splitter behind the headlight assembly--and another brake line that went from the splitter to the caliper. Easy enough to change that upper short brake hose out if swapping handlebars.
The rectangular master cylinder set-up had a single brake line that went from the master cylinder
to the caliper.
Eddie
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So, does someone who made the switch from high to low w/ the rectangular, single-line MC know whether a shorter hose is required?
Got the Flanders bars today at work...seem to be very nice quality, and shipping took 2 days from time of order.
I know what I'm doing this weekend. Now I'll be able to use my choke w/o scratching my formerly flawless S fairing.
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With in a month after I bought my 1982 R65 new I installed a Rapid Transit fairing and installed lower bars that were about a 2 inch rise. I did not change any cables, hoses or any wires so I could always go back to stock if I wanted to. In 1985 i got a 1975 R90 and installed a RS fairing and after like the position with the RS bars I bought RS bars and installed them on the R65 and stayed with the stock length cables and hoses. I also stayed with the stock length cables and hoses on the R90. I have not had any problems with the controls by doing this. Someday both bikes may go back to stock bikes but for now they will stay this way. I fill the RS riding position for me is the best ride position than sitting upright.
Don
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Got the euro bars on last weekend. Quite a learning experience, as switching bars is a pain in the old ass, and all the cabling is just not-quite long enough to pull the switch/control lever clusters off the high bars w/o stretching the bejesus out of the cables. If anyone has yet to do this, remove the clutch cable from transmission lever first...helps w/ slack.
In the process I definitley stetched the throttle cables. Seem to have enough adjustment left in the carb and under-tank adjusters to make up for it. I knew something was wrong when I started my bike for the first time after the bar install and it idled at 5000 rpm.
Niggles aside, the new bars have completely and profoundly changed my bike's personality. It turns and leans so much quicker. It is much more fun to ride. On the negative side, it's definitely less comfortable and harder on the wrists. I think I may get used to it, however.
Thinking of rearsets now. Any suggestions? Experience?
Thanks!
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I'm sorry you had so much trouble, jhebass, but you were trying to do it the lazy way. One definitely has to disconnect all of the control wires and cables before attempting that. I hope you saw the switches came off with just one screw?
As for rearsets, it is something I have thought off and on about for 27 years, but I have never gone through with it. But then, I enjoy getting out and crossing state lines every once in a while, and I don't want to be tied into one foot position.
There are a couple of places that sell them, but in either case you will still need to do some fabricating. They are not bolt-on kits. And they are expensive, over $200.
Myself, I am still hoping for the day when I will find a regular occupant for my passenger pegs. ::) Not that the R65 is really big enough for two, but I'd be more than happy to suffer.
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I just keep my passenger foot pegs down and use them when I'm cruisin' down the road. I started doing that when I found the buzz was less on the rear footpegs that the front. I kinda like the position, sort of like rearsets. So I can move my feet around. Not as cool as rearsets, though. [smiley=beatnik.gif]
Rob, two-up is not that much fun on our little bikes. My hubby's bike lost the gearchange spring up in Virginia a few years back and we two-upped it back to NC. At least we were able to trade off the driving duties. The passenger seat was NOT comfortable. You just need to find someone with their own bike, then you can use your passenger pegs yourself! [smiley=wink.gif]
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While I don't deny that I was slightly lazy (actually, more like ignorant), I didn't see that the control clusters literally came off while positioned on the bar. It seemed more like they loosen their grip on the bar so that they can slide off. The left switch comes off, but the clutch lever assembly doesn't...or am I wrong? Probably wrong. I should have removed the throttle cables, and the electrical connection to the brake lever easily came off.
I use the passenger pegs, too. It'd just be nice to not have to worry that I'll suddenly need to shift or brake while my feet are not in position. Plus, I occasionally do have a passenger, thankfully. I don't find it that bad, actually. She doesn't complain...much.
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You just need to find someone with their own bike, then you can use your passenger pegs yourself! [smiley=wink.gif]
The pickins are slim around here. All the girls want a Har-ley!...
I am beginning to warm up to a certain non-riding female online, here in town, and we have so much in common otherwise, that I am willing to make the sacrifice.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imz-ural.com%2Fimg%2Fpatrol.jpg&hash=831da8f4841632beed31005200a35cc3972f3ed7)
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i wish my wife would ride with me :-[, i'm luck cuz she doesnt push that she doesnt like them on me. thought if i could find a touring model with the trunk and bags where she would not have the feeling where she could fall off maybe i could get her on for a ride.
i am ucky to have six kids that love to ride.
now those bars, are those what they call drag bars with a pull back? compared to a straight drag bar or broom stick bar. anyone use the super moto bar? i use them on my other bikes and have put on on the r65 rebuild. yes i had to get new shorter brake tubing also.
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I've found that I can very comfortably settle my toes on the front pegs, and the end of my heels on the passenger ones. . .for an almost floorboard feel. Not something I like to do in traffic, but it's nice to have an extra position for the long rides.
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I've found that I can very comfortably settle my toes on the front pegs, and the end of my heels on the passenger ones. . .for an almost floorboard feel. Not something I like to do in traffic, but it's nice to have an extra position for the long rides.
Yes, that is my "third" position, as well!
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Me three !!!
Of course, having size 12.5 feet, I can often use both sets of pegs without even trying too !
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I can put my whole foot through the space between the front and rear pegs! No floorboard effect for me! ::)
(That's what a woman's size 4 will do for you. :-/ )