The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: trolle on September 02, 2008, 06:27:59 AM
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I made a bid for an RS fairing on eBay and won. As the fairing is complete and nearly undamaged I was lucky (nagging thought: is something wrong since nobody else but me made a bid for it? It went for the same as an S fairing which was rather dilapidated).
Problem: How difficult is it to mount this fairing, has anybody any experience in this?
greetings from a greying north
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I installed an RS fairing on my 75 R90/6. Was not a big deal. The Steering head may already be drilled for the mount.
Don
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Justin put an RS fairing on his '80 R65 and it fits and looks great. 8-)
There's pics of it here somewhere; actually, check his website, there's quite a few on there.
Seems like a fine idea... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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trolle you were lucky.
My RS project is on hold while I take the R65 on holiday to the alps next week. See my previous thread for a picture and anticipated problems http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1209158392. I did manage to get a good fit for fairing and mountings without use of a spacer, the problem was twisting in the upper mount, before time I had reserved for the fitting was lost to a higher priority. Handle bars and brake lines are the major issues remaining in my project.
Good luck with yours.
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Thanx, I expect this to be one of those two hours job that lasts a fortnight of frustrating trial and error ;)
In addition to actually getting the fairing fitted on, new brake hoses, change bars to allow continued use of R65 master cylinder, cables and wiring mods, and many more yet to be discovered no doubt. First major work to get a spacer for the headstock cradle that will move the whole fairing 1.5cm forward. As you can see the faring lowers aren't well lined up with the cylinders. Bars and forks need the spacer to allow free movement. Most annoyingly BMW have tapped the headstock to accept 8 x 1.12 mm bolt threads, talk about unobtanium. I have a pair of used ones on the way but worry they may not be long enough for the spacer.
What kind of handle bars were on your r65?
How is the headstock cradle fastened to the front? (I take it that it is this weird contraception: http://picasaweb.google.dk/petertrolle/BmwR6584Restoring#5243669587344821090 )
greetings from a cloudy north
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PO had installed the fairing on our bike before we got it and it looks like the stock handlebars were cut and re-welded. I'll see if I can snap some pics that clearly show the mods.
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Trolle, the frame mounting cradle thingumy is fastened to the bikes headstock using TWO small bolts. These bolts are labelled as No 2 in the diagram you posted. The bolts are 8x1.12 mm THEY ARE A UNIQUE THREAD. I think you really must have the proper BMW bolts for this because I found it impossible even to find a die in any catalogues for an 8 x 1.12 mm thread. The bolts are deliberately a quite tight fit and it almost feels like they're cross threaded when you screw them in. Great care is needed tightening them.
It seems that all BMW R series frames from the late 70s and 80s have the mounting holes pre drilled in their headstocks and capped with plastic bungs, which is nice.
My R65 had the standard european bars with approx 2 1/2 inch rise. A bit too high for the RS fairing. I'm going to use original R100RS bars which are essentially flat, with 25mm or 30mm risers. Risers are needed because the R65 standard brake master cylinder is otherwise fouled against the triple clamp with these low RS bars.
I've chosen to set the brake lines up as per factory RS and route them through the holes in the fairing. This means I can use those rubber bellows and get the full RS look. Maybe be a wrong decision wrt cost but the brake lines need replacing due to old age anyhow.
The great thing about this type of project is that everything is actually designed to fit. So, as I found if it doesn't fit then it's not the kit thats wrong it's me that's making a mistake, or something is a little bit bent.
Hope this is helping.
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I snagged a set of RS bars off ibmwr.org and ran into the same issue. Being too lazy to machine some risers I put the old welded up bars back on. ::) This is what the mess looks like:
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.suraklyn.com%2Fyabb%2Fpictures%2F1980%2520r65%2FDSCN1127.JPG&hash=e1d8df7379f05ab43d4bf49f1c57eac70bcbaad6)
Ummm, pardon the dust...
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.suraklyn.com%2Fyabb%2Fpictures%2F1980%2520r65%2FDSCN1128.JPG&hash=f641c7271a0eaa5d92d673a3ee7256aa5faedc87)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.suraklyn.com%2Fyabb%2Fpictures%2F1980%2520r65%2FDSCN1129.JPG&hash=f093642d80c2874d914c564be76ef11a1c915572)
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.suraklyn.com%2Fyabb%2Fpictures%2F1980%2520r65%2FDSCN1130.JPG&hash=095676a983d22a02b1cdde3b47d5ffc7f7a36419)
Although they are kinda ugly (would help if I wasn't too lazy to take them off and paint 'em) they did a good job as they are exceedingly straight and the welds are strong.
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Thanxs very much - now it begins to make sense. A couple of questions more: As far as I know, the headlamp of the r100 is bigger than that of the r65 and therefore I will have to get a new headlamp as well?
Another question is the problem of the shorter wheelbase of the r65, how does this influence the fitting of the rs fairing?
greetings from a moist north
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You will need a headlight and bucket from one of the bigger bikes. I can't see that wheelbase has any bearing on the fairing fitment.
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Ah yes. The headlamp. A good second hand one is predictably not cheap. So I chose one from ebay with a dent and lightly damaged chrome rim. Much cheaper and of course all the damage is hidden from view.
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At last.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc60%2Flarstorders%2F3firstrun8nov.jpg&hash=e7b4876c3a2f11635d9b52c8daa442c3c2e5c0cc)
Family probs have limited fairing work to a couple hours at a time. But today I had the whole day to myself. Managed to finish the fitting and get everything safe to ride by 3pm. So at 4pm as the sun was going down I set off to Manchester for a test ride. while everyone else celebrated the execution of Guy Fawkes. I wore my usual touring leathers and took along unlined waterproofs for the usual expected downpour. Bars seem cumfy enough for me. Wind pressure is all but gone. Consequently, cruising speed is greatly increased :) . Cornering, narrower bars and the fairing give a more planted, 'on rails' and stable feeling then previously. Which I don't like, because I know the front tyre is overly skinny and that's the feeling which creates false confidence. So, carefully does it. As I crossed the Penines on the M62, Firework displays from a couple of early bonfires, rightly added some celebration to the run. The flip up windshield provided a bit more protection than the standard screen, but I'm not sure its for me. There's a fair bit more noise of the flip up, even with ear plugs I think it'll be unacceptable over a days riding. Another minor prob surfaced when I came to park in the compound at Manchester. There's a lot less steering lock now. I had to saw backwards and forwards a half dozen times to park in a space the R65 would've slipped into much more easily before the fairing. The rain was falling an hour later when I set off for home. Weather protection from the fairing is good but I still need to put the waterproofs on. I caught occaisional whiffs of woodsmoke drifting across the motorway, from more bonfires that were now burning. The rain became torrential as I entered Yorkshire, but the firework displays continued regardless. 'focus on riding and stop gorping at the starbursts'. I was saying to myself.
I fitted the fairing to make riding more comfortable in the English/ North European climate and I certainly haven't been disappointed. Todays run was a good trial in British weather and I arrived home after 220 miles so much more comfortable than I would've in prefairing days. plenty of minor adjustments still to be done though.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc60%2Flarstorders%2F1firstrun8nov-1.jpg&hash=63280064a09669020d88dde19fc852fc460c48e2)
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Looking good larst! I'm sort of assuming that you had the fairing painted - or was it just blind luck that it came in the same colour as the bike?
How would you overcome the noise? Put on the stock windshield? Wouldn't it then have the issue of buffetting?
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It turned out great! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Very Good Job, Lars !!
[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Really beautiful!
I made arrangements with my painter this weekend to paint my rs-fairing and the rest of the painted parts glossy black with a white pinstripe. With this and the latest report from Lars I am really looking forward to driving the r65 with the full fairing.
Even though the weather here in Denmark is a little less moist than what they are experiencing in the British Isles a protection is a very good thing.
I am thinking of putting progressive springs in the front fork to make up for the added weight of the fairing, any comments on that?
greetings from a rainy and dark north
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Trolle,
As you have no doubt read, I am not a fan of the larger fairings on the smaller bikes, however, I would agree that putting a set of progressive or heavy duty springs in the forks is a very sensible thing to do.
It is my oppinion (and only my oppinion) that the RS fairing is the better choice though.
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Hi Steve
I know and I would prefer my S-fairing but as I often use the bike on the highway/motorway going for a 100 miles or more ride all year round, the S-fairing offers too little protection.
I am keeping the S-fairing, and if I find the RS to cumbersome in the summer, a switch is a possibility.
Thanks for supporting the idea of progressive springs. I prefer a very hard setup of the bike as it gives a better feel of the road and as it is now the nose diving when braking before going round a bend breaks my rythm.
greetings from a rainy and dark north
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Thanks for all your appreciative comments everyone. It’s really nice to be able to share things like this with fellow enthusiasts.
Brrr, I've been in Denmark during winter Trolle and you certainly need a fairing when summer's gone. Nice to be able to ride most of the year round ain't it :) . But it's tough on the finish.
I think were all looking forward to seeing a picture of your RS conversion now Trolle.
I did this paint myself, many months ago. As the cheapest offer for a quality job was around £400 and I just knew it wouldn't stay pristine for long. I used a borrowed sprayer and paint sourced by a mate. Easy to touch up with rattle cans and I was curious to see what sort of a finish I could get, too. Pinstriping, was using the masking tape technique, just like the BM factory did on this model. It was difficult to match BMW 501 blue cos it's faded over the years. Ford Hawiain Gemini blue came just about right and a deep and lustrous finish was achieved, in parts ;D ;D . As predicted, though, the fairing has suffered a ding already. No one round here has accepted responsibility yet, but I suspect a careless bicycle pedal :'( . The tank is original paint. I really dont want it painted because the original is such a durable finish. Shame about the scratch on one side though. Caused by a tiny coin stuck under the magnetic tank bag, Aaargh! Front mudguard and tail piece are on the rattle can, to do list.
I fitted 'progressive' fork springs a few months ago (4,000 miles) so they’ve had time to break in. While, with my light weight <65kg, they remained a bit too hard previously, they're very good now the fairing is fitted. Other than 'progressive' Trolle I wasn't able to find any other heavier than standard spring for the R65.
Aussie you asked about windshields, which often cause a dilemma. There's a strong airflow over the stock shield but I found it quite smooth on previous RSs I 've ridden/ owned. It provides the right amount of support, for me, when leaning forward on those RS bars and it’s way quieter than the flip up, for me. But, I know of other folks, usually those just a little bit taller than me (5’ 8”) who absolutely hate it. The flip up also reduces the airflow against my helmet and my upper shoulders and so increases the weight on my wrists a little bit and it's a bit too close to my face for my liking. The stock item feels and looks sportier and it doesn't really encroach on my view of the road, so I’ll probably switch.
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Apologies Trolle. I just realised I've hijacked what was initially your thread.
Maybe it's time to start an RS conversion thread. I found quite a few little 'challenges during the project ::)
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I don't mind. On the contrary, your postings have made me really looking forward to the "new" fairing.
On the subject of flip up: I got one for the S-fairing as the flow of the stock screen hit me right on the throat (I'm 6'1") on top of that I've added a laminar lip which smoothes the airflow at high speed thus diminishing the turbulence noise. The screen of my "new" RS-fairing is with flip up and I hope that it will keep the airflow away from my body and face.
Winter is hard on the surfaces but a nice layer of oil on the aluminum parts and wax on the painted parts preserves the good looks. (But she looks old and dirty in winter).
greetings from a moist and dark north
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Ive just stripped a rickman faireng off my R65 as part of the rebuild there were two rather mickey mouse spacers fitted to the forks to prevent oversteer they were 1/4 inch key steel welded to a jubilee clip very primitive located onto the bottom yolk you may have to fit something simular to stop you tyeing yourselfe into a knot on a tight corner
Lou
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Hmmm, yes. Quite right Lucky. Lock stops should be set correctly to prevent the fork legs tangling with the fairing. I thought all R65s had the substantial lock stop at the base of the steering head, which is pre-drilled so that a threaded bar n nuts can be used to limit the forks' movement. 'Mickey Mouse spacers ?' a picture would be interesting.
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On the post '81 model there is a substantial stop on the lower yoke cast with the yoke.
greetings from a cold and quiet north
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Compliments to you Lars
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Question for Lars: How is the instrument pod or dashboard mounted on your bike? As far as I can judge there is no room for the original front panel with the RS fairing bracket mounted so either the pod must be mounted in some other way or I have to bring my hacksaw to the original front panel, which pains me a little.
greetings from a freezing and wet north
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Now you're asking trolle.
Hold on just for a bit while I grab some photos for you.
The R65 instruments have to be elevated moved back toward the yokes and tilted back to fit them in. I'm afraid.
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I've put a set of pics I took and expanations, while fixing up the instrument mounting bracket here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/larstorders/sets/
Choose a set. Click on thumbnails at right, then click on '' + all sizes'' tag at top centre of pic for a full size (albeit low res) image. Click back button, click on next thumbnail at right.
Please feel free to ask if I've missed out some details.
TROLLE, What bars are you fitting to yours?
I used standard RS bars and 25mm risers to provide clearance for the front brakes master cylinder from the top yoke.
I'm wondering if you have a 1982 onwards twin disc model like mine, as master cyinders may differ between models.
The R65 instruments are originally mounted much further forward and 'flatter' than those on an R100, for instance. The bracket I made is very sturdy and vibration free, but not ideal from an aesthetic or mechanical view, so only temporary. I am working on a posh mounting utilising stanchion clamps, which should be quite nice, but won't be finished for a few weeks.
I can provide measurements of the temporary mounting I made, if you like Trolle.
In the finest Fed Dibnah tradition, though, my plans for the final 'posh' mounting are just on the back of an old envelope and penciled on a tasty looking lump of 5083 ;D ;D .
How did you get on with the brake hoses by the way?
ebay is a good source for steel and aluminium in small quantities.
And yes butchery of the headlamp/instrument mounting plate was a part of my modification :'(
I cut it back even further than this.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc60%2Flarstorders%2Fhlampmount.jpg&hash=5f4653c22eb6b558c4db75f7919062f4befffa8b)
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This is the factory instrument mount for the "police" models:
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I've put a set of pics I took and expanations, while fixing up the instrument mounting bracket here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/larstorders/sets/
Choose a set. Click on thumbnails at right, then click on '' + all sizes'' tag at top centre of pic for a full size (albeit low res) image. Click back button, click on next thumbnail at right.
Please feel free to ask if I've missed out some details.
Thank you very much, just what I needed. I've already printed your pictures to use them as blueprints.
TROLLE, What bars are you fitting to yours?
I used standard RS bars and 25mm risers to provide clearance for the front brakes master cylinder from the top yoke.
I'm wondering if you have a 1982 onwards twin disc model like mine, as master cyinders may differ between models.
The R65 instruments are originally mounted much further forward and 'flatter' than those on an R100, for instance. The bracket I made is very sturdy and vibration free, but not ideal from an aesthetic or mechanical view, so only temporary. I am working on a posh mounting utilising stanchion clamps, which should be quite nice, but won't be finished for a few weeks.
I can provide measurements of the temporary mounting I made, if you like Trolle.
In the finest Fed Dibnah tradition, though, my plans for the final 'posh' mounting are just on the back of an old envelope and penciled on a tasty looking lump of 5083 ;D ;D .
I have an RS bar with clamps, and I intend to use the lower part of the clamps as risers - they have just the right height. And yes the wh8la2 is a October 83 production with the square reservoir.
Please, please send me the measurements as I intend to produce it in stainless steel.
Fed Dibnah? 5083? Please excuse a humble foreigner having had the bad luck to be born at the continent, for which I am blaming my parents >:(
How did you get on with the brake hoses by the way?
ebay is a good source for steel and aluminium in small quantities.
I've just bought new ss-braided hoses from Motobins which I hope to combine with the old RS-set from Ebay and the parts from my original set. That is if it is possible to take the original set apart.
And yes butchery of the headlamp/instrument mounting plate was a part of my modification :'(
I cut it back even further than this.
That hurt! I bet [smiley=thud.gif]
greetings from a frosty and foggy north, dangerous conditions
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i thought of converting my original headlamp/ instrument mount into something like the police mounting. But sadly not possible with low RS bars. Speedometer drive cable was also a routing problem with the RS fairing cradle. Essentially, I lost access to the
original headlamp/ instrument bracket mounting holes on the top yoke :(
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Comparing the "police"-version and the original I found that the mounting point for the brake hose distributor is situated differently - how did you tackle that?
Oh, while I have your attention: In the dashboard of my RS-fairing there are two fuse boxes, are they stock?
greetings from a foggy and freezing north - very dangerous driving conditions
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Hi Trolle, Hopefully I'll get those measurements for you by the weekend.
No fuse boxes fitted as standard on any RS fairing I've ever seen. They might be handily placed up there, though.
Brake hoses, Hmmmm, I moved the brake hose distributor down onto the horn mounting lug as in picture (please excuse rust, all was cleaned and repainted before final fitting, of course ::)) In this position I found the length of the lower hoses were exactly the same as the original R65 lower brake hoses :), the top hose is longer. I fitted new anyway, because on close examination cracks were found in the originals. The horn is now mounted, temporarily on a bracket from the second fairing mounting bar which is positioned 'amidships'. The fairing does not allow enough room for the horn to stay in it's original position, anyway.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc60%2Flarstorders%2FDSCF2466.jpg&hash=d0dac0f9a715110e9535d2a3f81258dd148d08f8)
I used stainless, single sided, RS fork leg brackets, from Moto-Bins, to get the correct angle for the hoses as they reach from fairing to fork leg, bending the original caliper brake pipes to meet them was no problem.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc60%2Flarstorders%2FDSCF2468.jpg&hash=19d933797d78a949177f2f0b3483f3e35112eb8f)
Ensuring safe routing of the hose through the fairing was an excuse to make cute little 5083 aluminium brackets.
Looks like the front grill came off a red BMW ;D . More painting still needed,
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc60%2Flarstorders%2Fhosebracket6.jpg&hash=14e4398f1147e4c1ad1488d7bebdf5619bea7b8c)
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Very "sanitary" brake plumbing! You know, on the older bikes (pre-'85) relocating the fuses out of the bucket to the fairing would be a slick way to make them accessible. Fortunately, R65 owners have never had to contend with having to dig into the headlight to check/replace a fuse. :P
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Hi Trolle. I've put a diagram with measurements for the instrument mounting bracket on the photo site
http://www.flickr.com/photos/larstorders/sets/ .
it's not to scale. I've added 2 more pics that should better demonstrate the set up.
I'm using this as a temporary bracket, though, for reasons mentioned on the captions.
I find making cardboard templates is a great help when doing jobs like this, as no doubt Fred did too ;)
I must now rush off up north to wish bon-voyage to a mate who is off to Antarctica for a few months, again!!! Like it's not cold enough here?
Good luck
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Thanks again, Lars.
I've just completed cleaning up one of the forks - having done appr. 15.000 miles since last check I am using this opportunity to make a total check of all components. Things that need changing are being changed and to improve handling I've installed progressive springs. No doubt that it will do something to the handling as the compression of the progressive spring is 1.5 inches less than that of the stock spring at a load of 80 kgs. One thing that has been annoying me is the tendency of the front to dive when braking, I hope that this will remove this tendency.
Now I will make a proper drawing and find someone who can cut the forms for me.
greetings from a sunny and cold (38 F) north
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I would have modified the posting above if possible.
A student/college of mine has cut the three fittings for me in 2 mm aluminum. Now I will butcher the stock instrument mounting bracket and rivet the items together to form a new mounting bracket.
Recieved new keihan silencers yesterday, unfortunately there was a dent in the left, so now I am negotiating a switch with Moto-Bins.
greetings from a north with slippery and wet roads and low temps (38F)
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Really beautiful!
<snip>
I am thinking of putting progressive springs in the front fork to make up for the added weight of the fairing, any comments on that?
greetings from a rainy and dark north
Hi trolle,
Make sure you get the 1" PVC spacer otherwise your forks will lose some of their travel. Then 190cc of fluid. When a BMW shop did mine the front forks came out rock hard. On a hunch I drained one of the forks and pulled out 350cc!!! I have no idea where they got that quantity from. :o
(can't teach old trick to new dogs)
TTFN,
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Hi Trolle.
My bracket was made from 1.5mm mild steel. I really don't know if the 'design' ::) will be good with aluminiium plate. It kinda depends, what grade you use, as different grades have hugely different qualities, http://www.ez.org/aluminum.htm. I'm guessing you have 5083 grade there. You may find it a little weak for this job. But, I like over-engineering my stuff as it happens, so, you won't know until you try it ;) . Whatever, good luck and I'm sure you're enjoying your conversion. It's really good riding a bike that's got a lot of your own work in it :) .
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I didn't keep the 1 inch spacer. Tried it at first and wow, way too hard. Then I read the instructions that came with the springs suggesting that fork spring should be level with fork tops. So, spacer not required on my model. Now they're good with the RS fairing fitted. I'm wondering if the 'progressive' fork springs changed in strengh/ length at some time, so the spacer is no longer appropriatte for R65s.
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Hasty and uninformed decisions - the story of my life: Moto-Bins delivered the two ss brakehoses I ordered and they do not fit the distributor as they have "female" connectors at both ends. The problem may be solved by reusing my old R65 brakelines to connect the hoses to the distributor as in the attached photo.
Apart from the esthetical aspect are there any safety issues involved in this solution?
greetings from a grey and freezing north (23F this morning)
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I didn't keep the 1 inch spacer. Tried it at first and wow, way too hard. Then I read the instructions that came with the springs suggesting that fork spring should be level with fork tops. So, spacer not required on my model. Now they're good with the RS fairing fitted. I'm wondering if the 'progressive' fork springs changed in strengh/ length at some time, so the spacer is no longer appropriatte for R65s.
The springs (Wirth) fitted exactly with the spacers in the fork as they were exactly level with top of the fork, so I have kept the stock spacers and the recommended amount of oil using a 7.5w mixture. When trying out the forks by pressing down on them with appr. 50 kgs on each they feel OK with an appropriate travel distance.
The forks are fitted with 50 mm steel spacer, a 5 mm PVC spacer and a 2 mm spacer with holes on which the spring rests as seen from the bottom of the sliding tube.
I like my bike hard with a max. 20 mm downward travel when I mount it, measured over the saddle.
greetings from a grey and freezing north (23F this morning)
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Trolle, other then the "ugly factor" I don't see that you should have a problem with that as long as there won't be any strain/flexing on the metal tubes. The RT (and probably RS) had lengths of metal tubing from the splitter to the fairing. This plumbing is hidden by the fairing and the ends are captured by a rubber grommet in the fairing so no strain is put on the rigid piping.
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On a slighty different topic (but related ::)), I took the headlamp out of my RS fairing today as it looked a tad 'murky' in there. I cant believe the crap that I cleaned out from both behind the fairing glass, and the inside glass of the light itself. Makes you wonder how it gets in there! The difference is truly staggering on the road at night.
I was thinking of coughing up for an HID conversion, but I dont think Ill bother just yet.
Had a right old game getting the chrome rim to clip back on to the light afterwards though :-[, but worth the trouble in the end.
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You could always return the hoses for a refund. Brakes are crucial. If you think they're not quite right,
then they are NOT right.
As we're dealing with R65 conversions, components from R100RS etc, often do not fit, especially brakes. Which I found quite dissapointing :( .
Metal brake pipes must be supported properly at BOTH ends otherwise vibration will cause them to whip about with, possibly, bad results.
Did I mention that the original R65 lower brake hoses are still the correct length for the RS fairing when the 'distributor' is mounted under the headstock where the horn used to be (You will need a slightly longer upper hose though).
I see your upper brake hose does not connect to the 'distributor' with a banjo fitting, this may complicate siting of the 'distributor' where are you planning to mount it?
As you know, I'm happy to share my experience of RS conversion, (including hose fittings, types and sources) just ask.
Generally, I over-engineer, working, I hope, at least, to the same quality BMW did when they built the bike. This means that time, costs and difficulty are always of secondary importance to safety.
So I take my time and progress slowly.
And occaisionally spend money on the wrong equipment which I can't use ::)
Keep up the good work
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Bonzo, your R65 looked so clean in the photos, as well :-/
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Problem with posting late at night is I forget to mention the obvious Trolle.
You could get a couple of adaptors that will change your female ends into male ends such as http://www.earls.co.uk/earls/catalogue/Adapters.pdf they must be steel not aluminium. Number 592032ERL fits the threads on R65 brakes, but I would always double check the thread sizes with the seller (I would assume it fits R100RS hoses too). Of course your hoses will then become a bit longer.
Again, good luck.
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Metal brake pipes must be supported properly at BOTH ends otherwise vibration will cause them to whip about with, possibly, bad results.
Did I mention that the original R65 lower brake hoses are still the correct length for the RS fairing when the 'distributor' is mounted under the headstock where the horn used to be (You will need a slightly longer upper hose though).
I see your upper brake hose does not connect to the 'distributor' with a banjo fitting, this may complicate siting of the 'distributor' where are you planning to mount it?
I've studied a few pics of rses and found that the '83 uses the same length of metalpipe as the r65 (see http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photos/photophotos/R100RS%20-%201983.jpg) so if the firm you refer to will sell the converters and a banjo bolt to me, I will reuse the old r65 pipes.
Now my Brembos are as clean as they were when they left the factory and the first of many newly painted parts have arrived from the painter's. They look nice but I have to see them in clear daylight to judge for real.
greetings from a grey and cold north
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That sounds like a plan Trolle. I kept the original R65 metal pipes joining hoses to calipers too.
That was after I bought RS lower metal brake pipes expecting they would fit nicely, just like you. I was surprised to find they were too long :-[ . Yet they look just the same length in photos :-? :-?
Are your stainless hoses the right length then?
Are you routing your brake hoses as I did (check my earlier pics on here).
I changed my R65 brake hose brackets (on the fork legs/ sliders) for R100RS brackets. So that, pipes and hoses were supported at the correct angle which BMW intended for hose coming from the RS fairing. I believe it is safe to bend the metal pipes, to fit correctly with these brackets. Protect them very carefully with rags or plastic during bending, avoid kinks or bending close to the ends.
Is the top hose the correct length and it's connection to the master cylinder at the correct angle so it will clear the top yoke, if not it may be cheaper just to get a custom made hose. If you're fitting a banjo conversion to the end of the upper hose, it is a 10mm banjo with a 10mm x 1mm thread for R series BMW. But I didn't see one on Earls' website.
Earls performance http://www.earls.co.uk/ are an excellent company, though so it's worth asking.
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Bonzo, your R65 looked so clean in the photos, as well :-/
It is a clean bike I must admit (and Im not an avid bike cleaner), but the light just looked cloudy in there. Like I say, I just cant believe how much brighter it is now. I recommend everyone takes time to do it.
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Time for a short update on my rebuild:
Front forklegs have been cleansed inside out, fitted with new progressive springs and filled with 7,5w oil .
Brembo calipers have been cleansed and blown through with compressed air, seals and scraper rings have been changed as well as the bolts which now are stainless. Pins and other small steel items have been immersed in phosphorus acid for a couple of hours to remove rust and create a rust resistant surface. All banjo bolts, distributors and other items with channels have been blown through with compressed air. The braking pads being worth keeping have been cleansed thoroughly with WonderWheel (hydrochloric acid in a thin solution) and blown free of any residual dirt with compressed air.
The brake pipes have been cleansed and blown through and everything is assembled and (almost) ready to roll.
The bracket for the instrument pod is assembled, pop riveted together and is ready for coating.
Next item on the agenda is the wheels which will be cleansed and the disk bolts on the front wheel will be exchanged with stainless steel bolts. On the rear wheel the drum will be blown clean, the bearings on both wheels will be inspected, but as they have done only 16,000 miles they probably won't need changing, and the tire on the rear wheel will be changed.
Did I mention that the first parts of the fairing have been delivered from the painter's?
greetings from a wet, relatively warm, grey and very dark north (only 6 hours of daylight)
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Problem with posting late at night is I forget to mention the obvious Trolle.
You could get a couple of adaptors that will change your female ends into male ends such as http://www.earls.co.uk/earls/catalogue/Adapters.pdf they must be steel not aluminium. Number 592032ERL fits the threads on R65 brakes, but I would always double check the thread sizes with the seller (I would assume it fits R100RS hoses too). Of course your hoses will then become a bit longer.
Again, good luck.
Got the adapters yesterday, they fit perfectly and I can only recommend Earls: They answered promptly to my emails and were very nice to work with.
greetings from a very cold and grey north (23F)
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The mounting of the RS fairing has developed into a major overhaul, see
http://tinyurl.com/bmwr65rs
greetings from a clear and cold north, 32F
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STREWTH.
We thought you were just popping into the garage to bolt on the fairing.
Go to it :)
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STREWTH.
We thought you were just popping into the garage to bolt on the fairing.
Go to it :)
Well I thought so as well, but then one bolt took another and before I knew it my beautiful white lady was not a lady anymore but a lot of spare parts.
She will be resurrected as a beautiful black lady, rest assured!
I have created a minor problem, though: One of the cooling fins broke of by accident >:( and now I am looking for a way to fasten the broken fin again, so if any of you know of a superglue, able to withstand vibrations and high temperatures, I would be very pleased to hear from you.
greetings from a foggy north
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Total deconstruction!
greetings from a semi-clouded cold north 32F
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Looking Good! :D
::)
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Total deconstruction!
I notice the main tool visible is a mallet.
Deconstruction with a mallet maybe ???
Hey if force doesn't work you're just not using enough.
John ;D
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Oh the mallet has been very useful and so have a lot of other tools like the crowbar, the hacksaw and the chisel.
Jokes aside, the work is progressing beautifully:
greetings from a windy and cold north
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Hmm!
May be that I will learn some day not to act before I think, or, if any of you good guys out there need some new parts for your brakes, I have got a lot of spares!
The reason for this outburst is that I last week ordered a new braided upper hose with banjo adaptors at both ends for my RS conversion to replace the new RS hose with only a banjo at one end I recieved before Christmas. Today I discovered that the one I ordered last week will be too short, so now I have three new upper brake hoses: One unbraided for the R65, one braided for the R100 RS and one braided for the R65. I am becoming a collector of upper brake hoses!
greetings from a sunny, relatively warm and windy north where spring has arrived at last
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A sitrep: Engine and transmission is installed, valves adjusted (0.2 out, 0.1 in), excaust pipes mounted, electrical system installed and tested, control cables tested, mounted and adjusted.
The choker was very unwilling to return and a closer inspection revealed two things: The splitter was rather dirty on the inside which hindered the free motion and the upper cable was frayed, one of the cordels had broken and this made for a very sluggish movement of the cable because the broken cordel rubbed against the inside of the sheath. I think that this is the cause of my small problems with adjusting the carbs, they had a tendency to run rich.
Well a new cable has been ordered from Motobins and is in the mail.
Hopefully we will be on the road in a week or so.
greetings from a warm and nice north
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Geeze trolle - I think you must have just about built an entirely new bike there! I can't wait to see the finished product and hear how it runs.
Best of British (or Danish as the case maybe)...
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S'lookin good Trolle. Not long now :)
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Hi, and even my Fiamms work on the old horn connection making a hellish noise ;D
greetings from a warm and sunny north
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Trolle, make sure you have a relay feeding the dual horns. I think the stock wiring setup for a single horn was straight from the switch with no relay...
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Right Justin! As of now I've had to dismantle the horns to fit the fairing.
It is quite an interesting exercise, fitting the fairing, given the rather small tolerances, but after loosening a few screws, repositioning the brace, and using a measured amount of force I succeeded without braking, scratching, or bending anything to get all the parts in their proper place.
Tomorrow will be the big day, when the screen get into place and the rubber bellows on the forks will be fitted. If I am lucky the brake hose and the choker control cable will arrive tomorrow as well, and then it is riding time!
If I get the time, I will write an RS-fairing fitting manual for the wiki.
greetings from a sunny north with good riding conditions
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Not long now Trolle. Wow that paint job looks good. Really good.
Don't be Dismayed if those bellows won't fit, though. I couldn't get mine to fit because the R65 has wider forks than the R100 my fairing came off Aaaargh!
I was thinking about an R65 RS website. If I get time. Now I'm wondering how many other R65 RSs there are out there?
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Don't be Dismayed if those bellows won't fit, though. I couldn't get mine to fit because the R65 has wider forks than the R100 my fairing came off Aaaargh!
I was thinking about an R65 RS website. If I get time. Now I'mwondering how many other R65 RSs there are out there?
How did you solve the problem with bellows then?
Like a splinter group from the r65.org? Good Idea. I am getting a little annoyed with all those naked bikes, and I think it is time that we, the proud riders of the beautiful R65 RS, show our face and set our mark on the world.
And we are just enough to form a society (a chairman, a treasurer and one to take notes at our meetings and, as far as remember, a fourth who can have the honour of being the rank and file of the society) [smiley=argue.gif] [smiley=uhoh2.gif] [smiley=zzz.gif]
The paintwork was done by a professional and apart from a few specks of dust and ripples in the clear layer I find it satisfactory. Both the dust and the ripples can be polished away, which is a job that can wait till next winter.
greetings from a north where the weather is getting better and better
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At last, the choker cable and the brake hose arrived today and now the project is finished - that is but for a little matter concerning the brakes.
This is how a lot of my projects ends; just one tiny thing left and I make a pretty mess of things, spilling brake fluid all over my new paint :-[
I cannot find a proper way to bleed the f..... brakes, I almost succeeded but then the reservoir ran dry and air was sucked into the system.
Well maybe I will get the hang of it tomorrow.
Here is a couple of pics of the finished bike:
greetings from a sunny north (if it wasn't dark)
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Many Congratulations Trolle that machine looks absolutely magnificent !
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I omitted the bellows and went for full gaiters on my RS. It seems ok and the absence of bellows isn't noticeable. I've never had any probs with brake bleeding, I just keep on repeating the usual process and eventually everything seems to come good.
Re R65RS society, do we know 2 more R65RS owners?
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Looks great, Trolle!!! You can try letting the brakes "gravity bleed" bu just cracking open the bleeder screw and letting gravity take over. I also think that I've had to use a Mity-Vac bleeder kit a couple of times... :P
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Re R65RS society, do we know 2 more R65RS owners?
Maybe Justin is elegible :)
greetings from a clear sky, warm, and sunny north
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Hi
Larstorders, you write in another posting that you are redesigning the instrument holder. I am thinking in the same direction and intend to weld the holder (the protuding beak) back into the support but sliding it upwards appr. 20-25 mm matching the raised handlebar. I will then cut the support laterally and discard the lower part with the lamp holders.
The reason for this is too much vibration with the present solution making connectors loose and lamps to fall out of their fixture.
BTW the RS-fairing is very nice, especially in low temps; last night I went for a 50 miles ride dressed in my reinforced jeans, a cotton polo shirt and a cotton blouse under my driving jacket. No socks in my boots and summer gloves. With my warm handles set at low and an ambient temp of 54F/12C I was very comfortable from start to end except that my feet felt a little warm.
greetings from a not foggy nor damp north - the sun is shining, the wind is light and temps are relatively high.
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Hi Trolle,
When I bleed the dual brakes I start by using the Mity vac and have my son keep an eye on the resevoir. If I remember, I put a cinder block on each side of the front tire to keep it from swinging around with the resevoir cap off. If I'm alone I have gotten used to keeping the round resevoir about half full (so if I do hit the front tire it doesn't slosh so much) and re-filling it often. Once I have gotten the big bubbles out of the system, I close off the bleeds at the caliper and tap the hoses to get the air to run up to the resevoir where I gently pump the brake lever to get the air out. If you pump too hard or suddenly the return "spits" brake fluid into the air. My handle bars are taller than normal so most of my brake hoses are oriented vertically. Patience and not moving things too quickly will pay off in the end.
BTW - Nice bike -- you have done a beautiful job! Congratulations. I covet your Brembos. I suppose I could paint my ATEs black... ;)
TTFN,
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Here's my latest instrument setup.
My previous setup was exactly as I described earlier in the thread fabricated from 1.5 mm steel, I had no problems with instrument vibration. ( I could not figure out a way to use a modification of the original instrument to yoke mountings because of brake lines etc).
As you can see I have now discarded the BMW rubber surround, because I felt it was taking up too much space within the cockpit (and pushing up against the brake fluid reservoir). The exposed instrument cases are now painted satin black and look ok from the side view. Note the speedo is brand new and has a different case to the original looking very much like the rev counter. It also has kph and mph, very helpful.
I'll be extending the safety edging all round that central plate as soon as I get some more of the stuff. I have a little BMW roundel that will cover one of those domed fixing nuts and maybe I'll come across something to shield the instrument cases. That central plate provides very good stability to the instruments. Yes the voltmeter does stick a bit, but it does work. I wired up the fairing instruments lighting and the fairing driving light via a seperate switch so I can kill them and save my amperes when I'm using the heated jacket.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc60%2Flarstorders%2FDSCF2646.jpg&hash=93348e8e7f9b43564ad29725b8f650c116e46609)
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Sorry, forgot to mention. Underneath that central plate, the instrument mounting bracket is very similar to my original design (insulated from vibes by rubber pads), it just positions the clocks in a slightly better position. The central plate between the instruments is mounted on rubber spacers and seems to keep the show vibration free and makes it very much easier to get at instruments, remove bars etc.
We're readyfor some picks of your RS out on the road now Trolle. I hope to post links to a couple of mine this weekend if the weathers nice enough.
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Hi
Thank you for the detailed description.
And Semper Gumpi, thank you for your praise. I succeeded in bleeding the brakes when I stopped being impatient - as you state, it is the small steps that does the trick.
On the subject of brakes: The stock RS lower hoses were too short to hang loose when I turned the front to full stop, so I went back to the design I created very early in the process using the the two old brakelines as adaptors in the distributor. It looks OK and gives the the added length needed to keep the hoses slack when turning.
The loose bellows concerned me because I felt that they interfered with the steering so I tried to put them in their proper place and succeeded. It took a little crawling around and lying on my back but at last I got the hang of it and the result looks really nice.
Next item on my list is the modification of the instrument holder as outlined in an earlier posting. As I want to keep the ignition key in its old place and already have a couple of gadgets installed in the rectangular openings (the access openings for the fastener bolts) I want to keep the rubber surround. To make room for the brake cylinder and hose, and for turning I removed parts of the rubber surround. When things work allright I intend to modify the plastic bottom to hide the wiring which at present can be seen between the instruments and the fairing dashboard.
My wife is visiting my grandson and his parents this weekend so I am free to ride ;D I will visit my friend who lives 200 miles from me if I take the motorway, which I won't as there are some very nice twisties on another route only adding 50 miles :)
greetings from a warm and sunny north (70F/20C) with light easterly winds and a humidity of 45%. Perfect riding conditions!
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Sorry I forgot to write that your dashboard looks really nice, Lars
greetings from ....
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Let's talk trolle into writing up the entire conversion for the Wiki! I do not feel qualified as our R65"RS" was like that when we got it.
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I have thought about many solutions to the instrument cluster problem, and think that a modification of the original holder will be the right answer: (https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kceucnord.dk%2Fbmw%2FInstrument_holder_mod.jpg&hash=5eace19921cfff4601ad1c8403459018d20520bc)
And I think that my steering is way too tight, so today I will try and adjust it to make it go lighter. There is a marked resistance when I turn the front which makes it rather eerie to ride at speeds below 70 mph.
greetings from a sunny north, very good riding conditions