The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: montmil on October 26, 2008, 03:26:33 PM
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I was recently able to source a pair of gently used R65 side panels off eBay. Original Bronco Brown paint with white and red R65 logos. Not the most attractive color combination I’ve seen but the plastic panels and the mounting lugs were solid.
Before removing the stick-on vinyl logos, I made a pencil rubbing to save the original positioning of the stickers; just in case I ever want or find a fresh pair... but most definitely in a different color.
With a bucket of warm water, some 320 Wet-or-Dry, a Soft Block-brand rubber sanding block and an hour or so, the side panels were smoothed. I was able to remove much of the Bronco Brown paint without getting into the plastic substrate. A few minor paint nicks also disappeared with the 320.
By the way, it was real work using a wooden craft stick to dress down the original paint between the five louvered slots. Both the original primer and color were sorta fuzzy. Left as is, the finished rehab would have been even worse.
After washing the panels, a couple coats of primer was sprayed on and left to cure for a few days. 400 grit was used to sand down the primer - that’s including the louver spaces.
A medium-full coat of gloss black was then sprayed onto the panels. To insure full paint cure, five days cure time elapsed before color sanding with 400 and 600 grit. This sanding leveled the paint and eliminated a few specs that drifted onto the first color coat. More sanding between the louvers, too.
Final color was shot and, again, allowed to cure for a few days. Color sanding began with 600 grit and progressed through 1200 grit. A brisk rub with Meguiar's #1 Cleaner was followed by the Meguiar's #2 Polish, some Meguiar's Carnuba Wax and we’re sparkling good to go.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FPanelRub01.jpg&hash=babd47bc76f2951d5867720562d1d3dbc2a130b4)
A pencil rubbing will go into the shop manual and will provide accurate placement should I decide to go with some R65 stickers on the side panels.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FPanelSand02.jpg&hash=3f186f52fa9bbf1d25ee7dbee98ff3812d3d4c22)
The original Bronco Brown paint needed quite a bit of 320 grit work to get rid of a few nicks and scratches.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FPanelPrime03.jpg&hash=2fa8079c0b354b80ded028b16bbb05b89d3b0e55)
Two coats of primer and some 400 grit got the panels ready for color... Gloss Black. All sanding was done with Wet-or-Dry paper used really wet. Keep the sanding slurry rinsed off your work, primer and most definitely the color.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FPA250006.jpg&hash=287efcdec9a47d0b2a2ccff08470d7fd44c5f4a2)
The first color coat was sprayed on as a medium heavy coat. After five days for full cure, another pass with the 400 grit leveled the paint. Two days later, two additional coats of color were laid down.
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FPA260003.jpg&hash=31e06f2d6a9964f8eac70d7e144a96a31b0121a0)
After a couple days for paint cure, the final color was sanded with 600 grit through 1200. The Meguiar's polish and wax system brought out the depth of the color and a high gloss.
All primer and paint was done with Ace Hardware rattle cans and their "Premier" line of paints. $3.49 per can. Gunning the panels with my small detail gun would have required five gun set-ups and five clean ups. Too much hassle for such a small job.
Monte "I'm tired of sanding" Miller
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Monte,
I've always said that you have too much time on your hands, but my those covers look sharp!
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Ed
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Hmmm. colour sanding..that's the part I didn't do...Monte your covers look absolutely stunning!!! The orange peel look has got to go from my covers. I guess it's the choice of very fine sand paper that is critical Monte..like up to 1200 grit? Is there a tendency to sand too much and ruin things so one has to start again. This is what I fear most.
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Hmmm. colour sanding..that's the part I didn't do...Monte your covers look absolutely stunning!!! The orange peel look has got to go from my covers. I guess it's the choice of very fine sand paper that is critical Monte..like up to 1200 grit? Is there a tendency to sand too much and ruin things so one has to start again. This is what I fear most.
Color sanding is best done in tiny steps... sand a bit, then wash and dry. Check your work. Use caution at edges and corners as that is where an overly agressive hand may cut through the paint into primer or the substrate.
If you have orange peel that's good! Usually means there's a lot of paint to work with. Plus you are assured of knowing when to stop sanding... when the peaks blend into the valleys.
Start with some 600 paper. Keep the paper and the paint wet and frequently rinsed. Use a SoftBlock sanding block - available at autobody supply stores along with the paper you'll need. At times, it's necessary to use the paper with just your fingertips. That's OK too as long as you change direction frequently and avoid finger sanding grooves in the paint.
Begin with 600 grit. You'll do most of the smoothing work with this grade. The finer grits simply remove the scratches from the previous paper. Then to the 1000 and finish with the 1200... I have gone as far as 2000 grit on some projects but that is really over kill. When the paint color is smoothed to your satisfaction, stop sanding! The paint will look dull but the surface will be smooth as a baby's bottom.
Finish up with my favorite, the Meguiar's cleaner, polish and carnuba wax. Follow their instructions. For a good paint finish, there are no quickie short cuts. Have you priced a good auto repaint lately? Yikes! Just about anybody can shoot paint. It takes time to work it down to that deep, bottomless color.
Give it a try, Sue. Good bye, orange peel! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Monte
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Hey Monte - those panels look absolutely amazing - way to go! You have given me the inspiration and procedure to try a couple of things that I want to fix up. And those panels...I'm pretty sure I had them on my watch list....or at the very least I had a good look at them and thought what a god awful colour!
Umm by the way - and please forgive this poor boy - but what is colour sanding?
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Hey Monte - Umm by the way - and please forgive this poor boy - but what is colour sanding? [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Color sanding is working the new paint to a smooth finish through the use of progressively finer grits of Wet-or-Dry (brand name) sandpaper - usually 400 up through 1200 grit and used wet - to remove defects... dust motes, runs, drips, orange peel (like Sue is about to do!), scratches, whatever.
After the sanding procedure, the component can be cleaned, polished, waxed and admired.
Monte
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Monte,
My tank, fender, side panels and seat surround will be in the post.
You obviously need a bit of practice to demonstrate to the rest of us, your skills. Plenty of pictures please.
Can I have them back in a couple of weeks ? ;D
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Hi Monte,
those covers look fantastic.. can I ask what kind of paint you used? Rattle can, HVLP?
thanks,
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Monte, My tank, fender, side panels and seat surround will be in the post. You obviously need a bit of practice to demonstrate to the rest of us, your skills. Plenty of pictures please. Can I have them back in a couple of weeks ? ;D
Aye, Steve, no problems, mon. Watch for your completed pieces parts on eBay! ;D Thanks for the kind words. Actually, I have a vintage Vincent fuel tank to knock out now. Owner waited for over a year to get the tank from England. Faster...Lighter... Where's me Wet-or-Dry.
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Hi Monte, those covers look fantastic.. can I ask what kind of paint you used? Rattle can, HVLP? thanks,
As noted in the post... the paint shot out of a rattle can! Ace Hardware's "Premier" line of paint. Their Semi Gloss Black is a dead ringer for the original BMW chassis color and sheen. $3.49 a can.
I love my compressor and spray rig. Have done a few aircraft and auto components. Just get tired of setting everything up for a small job. The secret? It's in the sanding.
Monte
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Monte,
My tank, fender, side panels and seat surround will be in the post.
You obviously need a bit of practice to demonstrate to the rest of us, your skills. Plenty of pictures please.
Can I have them back in a couple of weeks ? ;D
Now why didn't I think of that?
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Monte, No need for a rubbing of the "decal" as new ones come with a backing cut to fit the shape of your side panel. EZ
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From williamemack: << No need for a rubbing of the "decal" as new ones come with a backing cut to fit the shape of your side panel. >>
Correct, *but* — When I bought mine a few months ago, they were a close fit, but not quite dead-on. Old stock? Go figure! (Took me ~1/2 day to get them on correctly, and I was still a skosh off on the left one.)
John
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Hey Monte, got any buddies up there in n texas that could use a nice white R65, 83 model , 53K, needs nothing. Larry Austin
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Argh !
Well, I've tried to follow in Monte's footsteps, but I guess that I was too eager/impatient and now have to start over again...
I had sanded my sidecovers down and put on a medium coat of Rustoleum gloss black, and let it set for a week. I can't get my bike out onto the pavement due to the swampy nature of the 1 mile dirt road I have to navigate from my garage to the tarmac, so I figured it was a good time to do bike tinkerin. I came back to the sidecovers and noticed a few specs and some orange peel. OK, I'll carefully wet sand those down and hit it with a light coat of color afterwards, I thought. So, I did. The rustoleum can SAYs that the stuff is cured in 24 hours, so I went back the next day to examine the results. Hmm, not too bad, but still a few spots need further touch up. I got too excited and sanded through the paint.. Oh, #$%^@. Well, it should be OK to spray another coat on top after cleaning and drying it, right ?
Nyet !
Apparently "dry" and "cured" may not be properly used on this can of paint, as my respraying the covers has now created a bubbly, "crinkle" finish on the covers from the second coat partially dissolving the first coat. Ugh!
So, now I gotta let it dry for a few days and sand, sand, sand, all over again.
I figured that I'd try this on the sidecovers before attempting to redo the fuel tank and other body parts. Maybe I'm just not patient enough in the springtime for this!!
:D
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Could it be the Rustoleum brand of paint? I do not know what all's in the rust proofing chemical makeup of that particular paint.
Perhaps try a good quality rattle can enamel, such as Ace Hardware's Premier line. It can be sanded down to nothing and recoated without problems. Shoot, sanding a bit through the first coat to the substrate is pretty common. I knowingly did it on both of my side panels.
Sorry for your misfortune but don't give up. I do think I'd try a different product line without any special attributes.
Monte
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It shouldn't react with like paint, sounds like it bled through and reacted with something underneath. When you are not 100% sure what's underneath it's good to either use an epoxy sealer or take the part down to substrate...
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I'm gonna sand the bejeebers out of it and try again with a different brand of primer and color enamel. I'll try the Ace hardware stuff as I think that there is a store not far away that should have it.
grumble, grumble.
I think that it must have partially dissolved the previous layer of 24-hour old paint, as THAT paint, which went on over the primer, didn't have any bubbling issues (it was the first coat of rusto paint).
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I was talking with the owner of my favorite autobody supply. The lady owner provided me with a $100.00 lesson for free and also mentioned cross linking; mixing different paint formulations and additives. Could result in incomplete curing of the paint.
I always use a primer to separate unknown finishes. Even taken down to the base substrate, I utilize a primer. So far, no issues but there's always tomorrow. ;)
Monte
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I just got back from the ACE hardware store with a new can of Ace Premier gloss black enamel and Premier grey enamel primer to have another go at the sidepanels.
I just noticed on the can it says: "To prevent wrinkling, recoat within 2 hours or wait 5 days".
I think that the sentence above is probably the CRITICAL factor, and does not appear on the can of rustoleum brand paint I first tried. IT definitely created a very uniform looking "pebbly" type of surface shortly after I applied another coat after sanding the coat that I had applied 24 hours earlier and which seemed to be dry. Maybe if I had a heated paint box/oven it would cure faster than waiting 5 days.
<sigh> :(
I'll just have to take my time with it.
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Big difference between a primer and a sealer. Mike, if you have a compressor you can get a copy of a Binks Touch-Up gun at HF for under $20 and do it with automotive grade paint.
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nhmaf,
Sorry to hear you are having problems with the old rustoleum.
I did not have any such issues and I was recoating every day in fairly low temperatures (nowhere near the recomended temps) - but I did it with a brush and a pot.
As I said before - minimum of 4 coats with a brush, over a period of 4 days - with a re-key between each coat. Each coat with brush strokes in a diffent direction. I did not thin it, I painted directly from the tin.
Then you can start the proper rubbing down and finishing. It aint perfect, but only because of my impatience. I might rub it down later and give it another coat or two to get that absolutely perfect finish. Perhaps next winter!
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I had painted the frame of this same bike with a brush, and it had come out well, but I was using some expensive POR paint at the time. The rustoleum paint has generally also worked well for me, until now. Even with a primer coat on it first did some funky stuff - though I suppose the sidecovers now look like black leather - a sort of fine, wrinkle patina all over, but not the look I was going for, and it IS gloss black paint.. So, I'll sand them down again and re-prime and repaint, going slowly, with the
different brand/different base paint.
I do have a good compressor in the garage, but no paint gun (yet). At the moment it would take me at least a week to clear out the garage sufficiently to be able to make a place to spry paint with the compressor without speckling something else ! After the sidecovers and recovering the seat, then maybe I'll see about repainting all the other body parts on the LS myself, or biting the bullet and having it done. I am planning to get the wheels off and powder coated sometime this year, but probably not until sometime AFTER the big rally in Tennessee (at this point I'm still thinking of riding the R65 down there - it's only about 800 miles or so!)
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...I just noticed on the can it says: "To prevent wrinkling, recoat within 2 hours or wait 5 days". I think that the sentence...is probably the CRITICAL factor...
Yep. Sand 'em back down after full cure then shoot each new coat within the two hour time frame. Let the panels cure for a week+, then color sand for maximum Wow effect.
Monte