The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: Kelvin on October 30, 2024, 11:18:44 PM
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I've put 500km on my 1983 R65LS since installing the Siebenrock 860 kit. It seems to be running hot: up to 140 degrees C (280F) in ambient temperature of 27 C (80F). This normal highway speed around 100km/h (65mph) and solo.
Have other people had this sort of problem? Do people install oil coolers alongside the kit?
Thanks in advance
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Is this oil temperature, or cylinder temperature ??
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Oil temperature, measured using a dipstick thermometer. In the past it's only gone up above 130 on hot days (35 degrees) and extended running.
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Have you checked ignition timing at full advance to make sure it isn't too retarded which causes overheating. Does the increased bore warrant a little more advance than a stock R65 ? I doubt a difference of 1 or 2 degrees would cause your overheating though.
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Did they advise to make and adjustment on the carbs with the kit, such as moving a notch on the main jet needle? Might be running a bit lean = hot ?
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If you are considering the BMW OEM oil cooler kit .
The most costly part, the thermostatic bypass valve will not fit .
The right exhaust is in the way .
There was an OEM exhaust pipe that was bent to where it would clear, but the part is no longer available .
I'll go through the stack of paperwork I have for my bikes and see if I can find the installation instructions for the oil cooler, it has the part number on it.
There is an OEM part from the airhead GS model bikes that replaces the thermostatic valve.
So oil flows through the oil cooler all the time .
I have this kit on my '81 standard R65 I need to block off the airflow during cold weather.
Well at least what passes for winter here in Phoenix .
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I did a little bit of searching for the installation instructions no luck I did this 28 years ago .
But what I did find, was the BMW part number for the oil cooler kit for airhead bikes .
Go to RealOEM and put 11421338771 in the part number search.
That's the part number for the cooler itself, the entire kit will come up.
I don't know if the kit is still available couldn't find a part number for it .
All the part numbers are shown, and again no idea if all of them are still available or how accurate the prices are .
Hope this may help you out !!
Looks like it will be costly .
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Hello, I've been running the 860 kit for a while in the UK. 27C is very hot here. 12C is more like what we have :)
The bike will ping in midrange with 5% Ethanol "Super" fuel and standard timing over ~20C. I have Silent Hektik ignition, which can simply be dialled back 2 degrees without affecting idle. I doubt 2 degrees would affect idle though, so turn your bean can back a little 8)
When I say pinging, I mean 'growling', running hard. Not the traditional tinkling sound.
She won't be run-in at 500 clicks. I thought with the whizzo liners and piston coating it would be done in five minutes. No, probably nearer 1000 clicks. And yes you need dino oil or it will take even longer. Plenty of heat cycles, keep it spinning, any growling, back off!
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Thanks for the suggestions, I'll monitor it for a few weeks, check the timing etc, and update. Maybe it will settle down during the run in period.
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Would an aftermarket deeper sump be cheaper than an oil cooler. Not as effective but might make enough difference.
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It would be less costly but it would make the center stand unusable .
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Hello Bob, depends which frame/year/bike and what sump. Extenders, maybe. 3.5L sump, no problemo :happy:
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Alright, good to know, the few larger capacity sumps that I have seen, stated that the center stand was unusable after the sump was installed .
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Moteren Israel
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I went to the Motern Israel site, and it states that the upper most strut of the center stand has to removed or replaced .
Is this one of the crossover tubes on the center stand ??
https://www.motoren-israel.com/Shop/Oil-pan-a-accesories/Alu-Oil-pan-ca-3-5-l::201827.html
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Yes it’s the upper cross over bar. I installed oil pan spacer on my 75 R90/6. Removed and installed the cross over bar just below the pan.
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Is this kit engineered to function correctly with stock carb jets and settings? It seems to me that increasing displacement by 1/3 is going to require more fuel, maybe move the needle up as suggested, maybe even larger jets. Or put big Mikunis on it. LOL
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Is this kit engineered to function correctly with stock carb jets and settings? It seems to me that increasing displacement by 1/3 is going to require more fuel, maybe move the needle up as suggested, maybe even larger jets. Or put big Mikunis on it. LOL
If you keep the stock air filter and exhausts, yes. I have keihin stainless OE copies and stock airbox. Open exhaust, K&N, big valves or cam change etc would require re jetting.
I don't purport to be a jetting guru, but this kit is a midrange improver. No rpm increase, so no gross change in flow. Just happens at lower rpm.
Big mikunis probably not going to do a lot as the 650 valves, ports and small combustion chamber diameter remain. The 450 to 860 conversion even less-so. :-\
I'd start with a 1000 and work from there if spending that kind of £££ :)
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What color are the spark plugs?
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High temps are a new one on me. I live in North Queensland, Australia where 30 degree (Celcius) give rise to conversations about how nice the cooler weather is.
After I fitted the 860 kit I pulled the dipstick temp gauge off the shelf where I put it years ago because it said things I didn't like on my 1978 RS.
Anyway I see temps in the 120-130 degree range as a matter of course. Deep sump, no cooler.
I stuck it onto the wife's R80 and it said dcthe same thing.
I am unconcerned
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Hi all,
Many thanks for the comments and suggestions.
I've now done 4,000km since installing the kit. Particularly, I'm just back from a 5 day sojurn in the Australian Alps, southern New South Wales/northern Victoria.
I've not again seen 140 degrees so I'm putting that down to the initial bedding-in period with the new pistons and barrels. It fairly often gets up to 130 degrees, and a bit more, but I was doing some spirited riding and returned home in 38 degree heat, so this isn't a concern.
With regards to the other suggestions: the plugs were a normal colour, nothing to suggest rich or lean. The spark was advanced, but not so much as to cause a change in temperature. I've found it runs nicely on 98 octane and haven't tried 95 or ethanol (locally the 10% ethanol fuel is typically 94 or 95 octane, the premium 98 is not diluted).
I'm not at this stage considering a deep sump or an oil cooler.
As dogshome suggests the kit improves midrange, I'm really enjoying the ease of overtaking and the reduced number of gear changes. However, it lacks something in the top end, over 6,000 revs and open throttle (the LS redlines at 7,500 revs and I routinely run it between 5,000 and 7,000). So, I'm going to increase the main jet size but not alter the needle clip position: the mid range that the needle jet manages is already sweet.
Cheers,
Kelvin
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Thanks for the feedback 8)
Don't expect too much at the top end. It only has 650 breathing and a very dodgy squish arrangement.
P.S. It's a balmy 4C here right now. I had to take my jumper off! ::) ;D
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I've done another 2,000 km on the bike but with 145 main jets. These are three sizes up from the original according to Motobins website (138 -> 140 -> 142). The bike now pulls strongly at high revs. Disconcertingly it has always "run out of puff" above 7,000rpm, which has made it easy to avoid redlining it. It is now still pulling as it accelerates upwards of 7,000, which makes me a bit concerned that I will redline it (7,500).
I haven'd calculated fuel efficiency but it hasn't completely killed its range (I got above 330km without going onto reserve). I've used both 95 and 98 octane fuel.
The temperature got regularly to 130 celsius but only up to 140 riding in 36 degree heat (97 fahrenheit). So, I'm no longer concerned about the temperature implications of the Siebenrock kit.
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Thanks for feeding back again, threads left open are always frustrating when you are searching to fix a problem 8)
Interestingly, the main jets in mine are 145 as stock. I checked against this chart when I did the upgrade, with the carb numbers.
https://bingcarburetor.com/uploads/9/8/7/9/98794296/bmw_jetting_chart_cv_carbs.pdf (https://bingcarburetor.com/uploads/9/8/7/9/98794296/bmw_jetting_chart_cv_carbs.pdf)
I wonder if that is an LS thing (exhausts?) or a country / emissions difference? It might be what day of the week they set that model up, or an early dieselgate for magazine road testers ;D
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Hello,
I was fortunate, in the early 80s to get a factory manual for the R65. It came with a set of updates. And showed that every year they changed either all the jetting or the needles position.
And, when I put her back on the road, I tuned her up because the fuels of today have changed a lot since the eighties.
In my case, the main jet was too big but the needle was too low.
I used this procedure : http://www.factorypro.com/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune%2CCV%2Chigh_rpm_engines.html it is easy and fast. But you have to have a set of jets to perform the operation. Not that expensive, but...
I can give the BMW P/N if you need.