The New And Improved Unofficial R65 Forum V2
Technical Discussion => BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 => Topic started by: montmil on October 12, 2008, 03:32:40 PM
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... thirty miles from home on a county road.
A buddy on his R100S and I on my R65 had ridden back roads to Forestburg, Texas, this morning. We always ride the "Cowboy Way". No interstate or major highways, just nice back country roads. Our group enjoys stopping often just because we can. Anyway...
Coming home, while rolling through a corner, the bike acted as if it ran out of gas; if you might imagine an engine shutting down quickly. Almost as if the ignition had been shut off. And that's exactly what happened.
Roadside checks showed adequate fuel. Fuses were swapped out. No sparky at the plugs. Hum...
Everything under the front engine cover is OE. We pulled the front cover to check for wire issues. Can't tell much just by looking. Ditto OE for the control unit and assorted goodies along the frame's backbone under the tank.
I have both the Clymer and Haynes manuals and will go through the troubleshooting sections tomorrow. In the meantime, any veteran R65ers have a "my best guess" idea as what may have occurred? Bean can? Ignition module? I will use a DVOM to check for continuity but was wondering if it might be a "that's what it usually is" type answer.
Any ideas as to a starting place would be much appreciated. I don't want to miss too much of this great late summer riding weather. And BTW, my sweet bride loaded tie downs and a ramp into my truck and came after me. What a sweetie... I'll start using the bread bag twisties "properly". Huh? Say what? It's all made clear in this humorous and slightly off-topic thread: http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1223135282
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Early structure in downtown Forestburg, Texas. My R65.
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My R65 and buddy's R100S... an immaculate bike.
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Monte,
My ignition switch would cut out on me for no apparent reason. I'd wiggle the key, turn off & on and it would restart. Replaced the switch electrical end and no more dying in the middle of a curve.
Good luck,
Ed
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Monte,
My ignition switch would cut out on me for no apparent reason. I'd wiggle the key, turn off & on and it would restart. Replaced the switch electrical end and no more dying in the middle of a curve.
Good luck, Ed
Will check it out. I have a simple 30 amp-rated toggle switch for my ignition. It was pretty cheap. I'll check it out. Good call, thanks. Monte
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Also check out the engine kill switch on the r/h handlebar.
for its position and reliability of operation.
The previous owner of my R100 had bypassed this switch as he was having similar issues. I have since stripped and fixed it -it is a bit fiddly though.
Time to dig out the multimeter.
Cheers
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i got OEM ignition switches up da wazoo, if you need one, i have never had a BMW one go bad, and i replaced all the ignit switches on my guzzi's with BMW ones. sounds like a coil or bean can to me.
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...or Hall sensor. I think Robin Frankham designed a test box for the sensor and has a schematic of it on his web site...
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i got OEM ignition switches up da wazoo, if you need one, i have never had a BMW one go bad, and i replaced all the ignit switches on my guzzi's with BMW ones. sounds like a coil or bean can to me.
...or Hall sensor. I think Robin Frankham designed a test box for the sensor and has a schematic of it on his web site...
So far today, Monday...
My main ignition/headlight switch is a 30amp toggle. Was simple to bypass the switch and test. No spark.
Disassembled the right-hand switch assembly. Some 'green' corrosion on the copper disc in the ignition cut off portion. Cleaned and buffed. A smidge of dielectric grease for luck. Reassemble and test. No spark.
I have a Dyna coil that was installed in June of this year. Kinda doubt it's the problem, but... Can I test the coil in my shop? How to do?
The Ignition Control Module is OE. No clue if it can be tested or even if it's the issue. Note that Rick Jones has a replacement "semi-BMW" module for a good price.
Popped the lid off the bean can but "talking to it" didn't fix the non-sparking ignition. Hall sensor also popped into my simple head. Appears that everything under the front engine cover and the fuel tank -save for the coil- is OE 27-year old stock.
I hate to throw parts at a problem hoping to get lucky but I'm getting stumped. Even had to replace the 9v battery in my DVOM.
Recommendations as to test procedures and what to buy/replace first?
Appreciate the input, guys. And Lamont in Austin... I may want to upgrade my handlebar switch assemblies... just because. Glad to know you have a couple.
Taking a break right now for a cool, malt beverage. Electrical gremlins are my least favorite issue.
Monte
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monte, i too had electrical probs with mine, funnily enough when going round R/H corners it would just cut-out and then restart when I straightened up (most of the time). Previous owners had made modifications to the main ignition cable running upto the ignition switch and corrosion had set in a bad way. I also replaced the starter switch due to corrosion although I live in a temporate climate where there is a lot more moisture in the air.
I would check the block connectors under the tank (if thats where they are on your bike) and make sure all the contacts are good.
I would also do a 'trace the cable' from the block connectors to make sure there isnt excessive wear anywhere as alot of the cabling twists its way around the frame and fittings, esp around the headstock.
I would also trace the wiring to and from the coils. I know that the front coil (if yours has 2 single coils) that they are linked and the front has a connection coming from the starter motor? http://www.flickr.com/photos/22686607@N06/2186200288/in/set-72157603689753804/ (black neg one) you cannot put this wire on the rear coil, the engine will not start (from my experience).
Plus check the bean can again, if the points look worn, or they are completely melted together ... well you can guess the rest ;)
and thats all I can think of for the time being!
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Good tips, Vesty!
My R65 is an '81 with electronic ignition. No point in points. I'm still running wires as you suggest. Block connectors will get the Mk 1 eyeball, too. The DVOM is a great tool.
I'm running a Dyna coil from Rick Jones since June of this year. Sure hope it hasn't gone Tango Uniform.
The Haynes manual has a very good test procedure for the Ignition Control Unit (ICU). Some folks refer to it as the ECU. All same, all same.
I'll do that test as soon as I can get away from work. After working my way through two BMW manuals, the ICU and "bean can" are looking to be likely culprits. I will test as best as I can. Hate to throw expensive parts at the bike hoping to get a winner.
Field stripping the bike has permitted me to do some other maintenance items, too. It's all good. I'm gonna figure it out... eventually.
You guys keep the tips coming. This thread will help lots of others somewhere down the road.
In the meantime, I'll just drop the top on the Cabriolet and pretend I'm on two wheels.
Monte
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Put a scope on the wire coming up from the bean-can and see if you have any pulses...
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Testing the ignition is not too difficult. First, take a 12V test light and make sure you have juice at the coil when the key is turned on. This will eliminate the ignition switch and cut-off switch. If you do then remove a spark plug and lay it on the cylinder with the wire re-attached. Turn the ignition on and flip the cut-off switch on and off several times. You will see a spark if your coil and ignition module are good. Replace plug. If you still don't have a spark when trying to start the engine now you have a bad hall sensor. I installed a redundant sensor on both of my airheads as the R65 died one day with a bad one. The tip off is the tach goes dead as soon as the bike looses power. They are less than $13 from Newark Electronics and if you have access to a mill and rotary table it is easy to fit the second one. These days I carry my old, but usable, crack-o-matic coil and a spare ignition module in with my spare parts kit. With these pieces and a test light I'll never be without what I need to repair the entire ignition system. I bought the spare module at a U-Pull-It for $5.00. It came from an early 90's Volkswagen Quantum, or some such, which used the identical type of system as our bikes. I bought the whole distributor too as it had a spare sensor and other hardware which I could use in the bike in an emergency.
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Put a scope on the wire coming up from the bean-can and see if you have any pulses...
OK, Justin... You're gonna have to break in down for me like you did the Marines... "Barney-style".
Scope? Got one on my rifle but no electronic test gear that sophisticated! Is there only one wire from the bean can? Little help for this stumblin' cat. Thanks!
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Testing the ignition is not too difficult. First, take a 12V test light and make sure you have juice at the coil when the key is turned on. This will eliminate the ignition switch and cut-off switch. If you do then remove a spark plug and lay it on the cylinder with the wire re-attached. Turn the ignition on and flip the cut-off switch on and off several times. You will see a spark if your coil and ignition module are good. Replace plug. If you still don't have a spark when trying to start the engine now you have a bad hall sensor...
Excellent test sequence, John. Thanks a lot.
I found the cut-off switch to be worn out and negative function. Bypassed the switch and tested for a spark, per your instructions, but no joy. Believe I'll send the "can" to Rick Jones for an overhaul.Also need to contact "Son of Sanford" and score a functional switch assembly.
I'll post up progress as it happens. I really appreciate the responses and help from all you cats here in the R65 asylum. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Interior view of the lame cut-off switch area. Cleaned it and talked nice to it but it remained negative function. Must place in on my "Offerings to the Gods of BMW" shelf.
Monte
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The ICU is the same as is found in many VWs - you may have a spare already, or at least a known good one on the Cabriolet to swap and test. My bike is currently running with an ICU from a junkyard first generation Jetta - cost me all of $4.
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Alternator rotor? That's what happened on Graham's '81 R100.
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Latest update on my ignition concerns... Came in this afternoon and did a test, again, to try and get a spark at the plug by turning on the ignition and toggling the cut-off switch.
As I am suspect of the vintage cut-off switch, I disassembled the switch and used some new ChannelLock needle nosed pliers to "toggle" between the copper contacts. I won a big set of ChannelLock products at a chili cook-off... but that's a story for another time. Toggle, toggle...
Eureka! I got multiple strong sparks from the sparkle plug! Happy dance in the shop as I may save some bucks by not having to replace the bean can and Hall sensor.
The cut-off switch is pretty well toast. Some plastic bits are crumbly and after 28 of service, it needs replacing.
Re-Psycle http://re-psycle.com/ is a favorite of mine so will call 'em on Thursday as they're closed Wed & Sunday. Hope Mark and Marco can help me out. I like those guys.
Will post again as progress is made.
Again, thanks to all for "holding my hand" with good tips and ideas. Y'all stop by for a cool one anytime. [smiley=beerchug.gif]
Monte
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...These days I carry my old, but usable, crack-o-matic coil and a spare ignition module in with my spare parts kit. With these pieces and a test light I'll never be without what I need to repair the entire ignition system. I bought the spare module at a U-Pull-It for $5.00. It came from an early 90's Volkswagen Quantum, or some such, which used the identical type of system as our bikes...
BigJohn got me thinking about Ignition Control Modules (ICUs or ECUs) so I checked my favorite source for my '86 Cabriolet parts. Look what I found for $35.00! Motoradd Elektrik has a non-BMW replacement also.
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=g0zw4u55bzxwz245cfe20r55&makeid=800026@VW&modelid=1280348@CABRIOLET%20%20&year=1986&cid=25@Ignition%20Parts&gid=7172@Ignition%20Control%20Unit/Ignition%20Control%20Module
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Nice to see it was some thing simple and relatively easy to replace.
Cheers
Steve
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While I search out a new/used right-hand switch assembly...
Is there any reason that I could not simply bypass the cut-off switch and ride on? There is 1) a green wire and 2) a green wire with a blue chaser at the cut-off switch. Thinking that temporarily mating them would get me back up.
Am I thinking clearly here? ::) Thanks,
Monte
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That is exactly what the previous owner of my R100 did - bypassed the kill switch to keep the bike going - he switched the bike on and off using the ignition - weird ;)
However I do not have the circuit diagram in front of me.
Only he never did repair the switch ::)
I was in there is I was removing extentions for the RT bar conversion he did. I wanted to pull all the extension out as I wanted Euro bars.
Steve H
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Jumping the wires together is the same as turning on a switch, the switch doesn't do any magic... I personally never use the kill switch, but that's just the way I do things. Scope = oscilloscope...
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That is exactly what the previous owner of my R100 did - bypassed the kill switch to keep the bike going - he switched the bike on and off using the ignition... Steve H
Believe I'll give it a whirl. I'm going through R65 withdrawal and the weather is perfect temps for riding. Thanks, Steve.
I did make contact, today with Re-Psycle http://re-psycle.com/. Lee had several right-hand switches for R65s; all with the wire loom and connector block. As 78-85 R65s had the same switch design, I asked him to pick out a "fresh looking" used switch and send it to me. "Can do", says Lee.
Re-Psycle sells lots of R65 parts, both used and new. I have had nothing but good experiences dealing with them. May be just lucky, but each item I call for, they have had. I highly recommend them. Used parts are 50% of list so I got a new-to-me used switch for $33.00. Can't complain.
Re-Psycle recommends using the A&S BMW fiche to get your part number, then call. Here's that link... http://www.ascycles.com/Illustrated_catalog/R65(78-85)/catalog_frameset.html
Spent some time this afternoon buffing up and adding dilectric grease to several connector blocks.
To quote the "Guvernator"... I'll be back.
Monte
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Well, I've crapped out!
I followed all the Clymer and official BigJohn ignition tests and, while hoping against hope, I've had to pull the bean can and ship it to Rick Jones for an overhaul.
I get sparkle plug sparks when toggling the switch but nada when I hit the starter button. Ran the proper sequence tests on switches and power to coil. Coil and ICU good to go. Buffed up connector blocks and traced wires with a DVOM. Sigh... John, Clymer and others say it's the Hall sensor.
It's not a total down-time loss as a buddy called me last night and offered his beautiful R100S as a ride until mine is back up and perkin' along. Gotta love it!
Sometimes, money just seems to fly outta my pocket... :-/ Stayed tuned. Film at ten.
Monte
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Bummer Montmil...I figured you had it solved! I love Re-Psycle too..they supplied LRB replacement passenger footrests when they were lent to the F650GS! Sadly, I lost in the accident a spare alternator, diode board, rotor and the bolt for removing the alternator for LRB which I had bought from Matt Parkhouse at the Gillette Rally. Now that bugs me!! I figured I had it solved for "electrical things that could leave me on the side of the road" with the R65LS! I guess there are lots more but it would be interesting to ask what is handy to carry with us onboard?
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Beanie Weenie off to Motoradd Elektric before noon today. $175.00 for the rebuild of my original is purty stout but less than dealer price from BMW. I'm going to have to be R-E-A-L nice around the house for awhile. [smiley=engel017.gif]
While I wait, I need to clean out that nasty "can closet". I have a new gasket for the cover. That ought to help keep things a bit more tidy as there was no gasket installed when I pulled the front cover last Sunday... on the road... miles from a cold one.
Monte
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa1%2Fmontmil%2FBMW%2520R65%2FBeanCan02.jpg&hash=c4e079e6889a31ddfa4b284ada535611995a7953)
Now you see it...
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Now you don't.
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The ignition hall sensor can be definitively tested with a 9v battery, a resistor, and an LED. The tester can also be used to set ignition timing statically (not really the best method but sometimes useful). I can dig up the circuit diagram if anybody is interested.
Improperly testing a hall sensor with a multimeter can kill said sensor. Easy to do, don't ask me how I know. ;)
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Post up the diagram... we're all interested.
I used the BigJohn/Clymer test procedure to locate the reason my scooter quit.
I had ordered a used but new-to-me right-hand switch assembly from Re-Psycle on Thursday morning, just after they opened at 1100 hours, Eastern. Lee was very helpful, had what I needed and said he'd get it out to me. A man of his word! The switch was in my mailbox Saturday morning. It now resides on my handlebar... right side.
Good guys up there in Ohio. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Give 'em a shout next time you're bike is hurting.
Monte
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Monte,
Been lurking on this one but now that you have narrowed it down to the hall sensor I'm a bit surprised you aren't going to replace it yourself. A bit fiddly but well within your talent.
http://www.deathstar.org/~flash/ig_trig.html
http://www.geocities.com/fwarner_au/mc_things/bmwr_ign_sensor.html
rich
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If one is handy enough to handle simple electronics projects, one can build a tester that will work on airheads as well as on oilheads !
Check out this link:
http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/oilhead_timing_box.pdf
The airhead tester would only have 3 pins on the connector (to mate with the 3 pin connector on the bean can) .. Pin#1 would be power (9V), Pin #2 would be the connection to the Hall effect sensor (through the resistor and diode), and Pin#3 would be the ground connection. The oilhead has another sensor and uses a different pinout, as you can see from the link above. If one can find the proper connectors, you could build this project for a bit over $20 in parts plus your spare time, versus spending much much more.
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Post up the diagram... we're all interested.
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Oops, I didn't notice that you indicated "12V LED" in the schematic - this IS important as using a regular LED (0.7V) in its place will cause a problem.
I don't know if many will know or easily find the difference between them. The following schematic will also work and uses very readily found parts.
The 1K Ohm resistor should be in SERIES with the LED, not in parallel with it. Otherwise, you DO risk damage to the Hall Effect sensor since the LED will only have about 0.65V across it and will not limit the current through the sensor. That is what the 1K resistor is for.
Here is a diagram for a tester which is credited to R Frankham. It is handy in that the extra push button switch enables one to "test" the tester, so if pushing the button does NOT cause the LED to light, the battery is no good. Otherwise, one would not use the little push button switch to test the Hall Effect sensor.
Testing is as simple as connecting it up to the connector and turning on the power switch to the 9V battery and turning the sensor (with or without motorcycle engine attached). The LED should come on when the vane alignment cause the magnet in the bean can to trip the sensor, which should be near TDC.
Do NOT have your ignition turned on (Safest to disconnect the motorcycle battery !) when doing this test.
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Mike, that is the circuit I was thinking about. As far as the 12V LED goes, I would assume it to be one of the "assemblies" seen on e-Bay that come with an integrated resistor as all LEDs take approx. a .7 V forward bias and you just add the appropriate resistor to limit the current to something that won't fry the LED. I have some that panel indicator assemblies that run off 117 VAC and contain a little circuit board with a resistor and a diode, but I digress...
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Yes, my concern was that someone might not notice or understand the 12V LED reference means an integrated resistor is not shown in the drawing and put in an LED that one can get for less than $.25 at Radio Shack. I design electronics for a living and virtually never use the pre-fabricated parts unless they really are cost effective to do so - this often doesn't work unless I am designing something that is extremely low in annual volume or the part in question is truly a 'rare bird', and even then, I have to spec out what the values/tolerances, etc. need to be for the pre-fab part. One company's 12V LED assembly may well not be just the same as another's, and I like having things boiled down to the lowest detail, if it is important. :D
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The 1K Ohm resistor should be in SERIES with the LED, not in parallel with it. Otherwise, you DO risk damage to the Hall Effect sensor since the LED will only have about 0.65V across it and will not limit the current through the sensor.
I designed my circuit based on the application notes for compatible Hall Effect sensors I have found. These notes specify that a pull-up resistor of 1k-10k ohms be connected to the sensor output circuit, between V+ and sensor output. That is what the resistor is for, and it is connected properly.
Yes, by "12V LED" I meant an LED assembly with integrated resistor. A discrete LED in series with an appropriate resistor may be substituted. Had I chose to illustrate the circuit with a discrete resistor, I could not have specified a resistor value without also specifying a particular LED, as different LEDs can have different voltage requirements. 12V LED/resistor assemblies are extremely common these days. My goal was as simple a circuit as possible, I think it is clear what was intended.
This circuit has been tested on both Airheads and various Audis.
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Nothing, thanks for the alternative. I had followed discussions on Robin's tester when he was originally designing/building it and was somewhat familiar with it. I really should order a couple of hall sensors one of these days...
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The 1K Ohm resistor should be in SERIES with the LED, not in parallel with it. Otherwise, you DO risk damage to the Hall Effect sensor since the LED will only have about 0.65V across it and will not limit the current through the sensor.
I designed my circuit based on the application notes for compatible Hall Effect sensors I have found. These notes specify that a pull-up resistor of 1k-10k ohms be connected to the sensor output circuit, between V+ and sensor output. That is what the resistor is for, and it is connected properly.
Yes, by "12V LED" I meant an LED assembly with integrated resistor. A discrete LED in series with an appropriate resistor may be substituted. Had I chose to illustrate the circuit with a discrete resistor, I could not have specified a resistor value without also specifying a particular LED, as different LEDs can have different voltage requirements. 12V LED/resistor assemblies are extremely common these days. My goal was as simple a circuit as possible, I think it is clear what was intended.
This circuit has been tested on both Airheads and various Audis.
Your circuit is fine - the reason that I indicated series .vs. parallel was initially I just saw the LED, and not the "12V LED" designation. I virtually never use the pre-assembled LED/resistor packages in my work, so I didn't look at the text initially. But, in my edit of the note I forgot to change that sentence.
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Monte, Been lurking on this one but now that you have narrowed it down to the hall sensor I'm a bit surprised you aren't going to replace it yourself. A bit fiddly but well within your talent... rich
Rich, you are too gracious as to my "talents". After checking several "official" BMW dealers and their prices for the bean can assembly -from $499.00 to $399.00...ouch!- I shipped it to Rick. When Justin mentions an oscilloscope for a test... I'm outta here!
Talked to Rick at Motoradd E this a.m. and he said he'd git 'er done and back to me asap so I can finish my Sunday morning ride. His price for an overhaul is $175.00. Yes, that's a bite but I really appreciate Rick's skills. Wasn't it The Duke who said, "A man's gotta know his limitations". Or Dirty Harry Eastwood?
Thanks, "Nothing" for your assist with the tester diagram. I'll build one and hope I don't need it for a long time. This thread just gets better and better. We can save a buncha BMWs. Gotta love it. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Montmil - That is one of the classic Dirty Harry quotes ! I use it at least once a month, if I can !
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Monte, If you haven't already, check out : motobins.co.uk/services.php#Older It may have a clue for you plus a lot of other good tips.
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I had the same problem 2 weeks ago. NO SPARK. After trying to start, no spark - but a very hot coil. Pulled the leads and a lot of verdigris (green corrosion) on the RH HT cable connection to the coil. Temporarily fitted a jap coil just to test - NO SPARK. Bean can OK. Ergo, the Ignition control unit. Ordered a new coil, HT leads and ICU from Motobins in England. 90 minutes after receiving them, the bike is running like a dream!
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I had the same problem 2 weeks ago. NO SPARK. After trying to start, no spark - but a very hot coil. Pulled the leads and a lot of verdigris (green corrosion) on the RH HT cable connection to the coil. Temporarily fitted a jap coil just to test - NO SPARK. Bean can OK. Ergo, the Ignition control unit. Ordered a new coil, HT leads and ICU from Motobins in England. 90 minutes after receiving them, the bike is running like a dream!
...and I'm still waiting and waiting and waiting for Motoradd to return my overhauled bean can. Forced to ride the other R65.
Monte
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That's why everyone needs two bikes. One to ride while the other is being worked on. Still trying convince my wife of this necessity, but have't quite gotten there yet.
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That's why everyone needs two bikes. One to ride while the other is being worked on. Still trying convince my wife of this necessity, but have't quite gotten there yet.
Rather brisk here this morning with 20-25 mph winds and lower 40's. Still went out for a short ride and fueled up at $1.81 for regular. Saw no other bikes on the roads. My chilled fingers may explain why. My feet and shins were comfortable thanks to the Beemers "factory feet heaters".
Supposed to freeze tonight. Our first of the season. I have been mulching plants in preparation. A pot of homemade chili is also in order. This ain't Bali 8-)
Monte
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I have read this entire thread and understood very little except to get a second bike again AND carry some extra parts like an ICU. AND be on my way to Mike's home; better still be very close by and have him test things and fix it!! I have an extra Hall Sensor from Newarks? so I must read what to do with it!!
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That's why everyone needs two bikes. One to ride while the other is being worked on. Still trying convince my wife of this necessity, but have't quite gotten there yet.
Rather brisk here this morning with 20-25 mph winds and lower 40's. Still went out for a short ride and fueled up at $1.81 for regular. Saw no other bikes on the roads. My chilled fingers may explain why. My feet and shins were comfortable thanks to the Beemers "factory feet heaters".
Supposed to freeze tonight. Our first of the season. I have been mulching plants in preparation. A pot of homemade chili is also in order. This ain't Bali 8-)
Monte
No , it isn't Bali, you lucky devil!. At the moment we have 31deg. C and about 88% humidity! - and it's gonna rain - AGAIN!
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Rick Jones contacted me yesterday, Saturday 23 Nov 08, to say my awol bean can overhaul was being shipped to me on Monday. Hallelujah!
Now looking forward to installing the part, crossing fingers and seeing if the R65 will make steam. Will check back when there's more info.
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Just looking at the diagram that nhmaf kindly provided and was wondering, is it really necessary to use a DPST [double pole single throw] switch or would a single pole be just fine? Thinking of building a few as they look pretty simple but I'm not electronics trained. Also why would you need to keep the ignition switch off? It seems to be that by unplugging the can it would be isolated, you could then crank the starter [with test set connected] to perform the test. Keep in mind I'm electronically challenged.
rich
who is going to annoy the kids at radio shack.
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is it really necessary to use a DPST [double pole single throw] switch or would a single pole be just fine? Also why would you need to keep the ignition switch off? It seems to be that by unplugging the can it would be isolated, you could then crank the starter [with test set connected] to perform the test.
No switches at all are necessary - just unhook the battery to turn it off. Yes, you can use it with the starter cranking, as unhooking the bean can to attach the tester does take it completely out of the loop, although it does keep the ICU energized - some versions of the ICU don't like that, but some later versions have an auto-shutoff feature to avoid damage. Simply pulling power to the ICU as well makes everything safe.
See my circuit above for a much simpler and easier to build tester - I've made a couple of them without a single solder or crimp.
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Ok that's in parallel with a 12v LED but if I used a 2.5v LED the resistor goes in series instead. Do I have that right? :o
rich
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Ok that's in parallel with a 12v LED but if I used a 2.5v LED the resistor goes in series instead. Do I have that right? :o
rich
I believe a parallel resistor should be used either way. This functions as a "pull-up" on the output of the hall sensor as specified in the application notes - I feel it's better safe than sorry when dealing with these rather sensitive sensors, but others say it can be omitted.
If you are using an LED without a built-in resistor, then yes, a resistor should be added in series, size determined by the current requirements of the LED.
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Ok got it but then...some raccoon wearing guy shows the LED between the sensor and the NEG terminal on the battery! Sheesh!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm70%2Fmrridden%2Ftrigtest.jpg&hash=7fcc1c2b7415b8d95b46d49b3f087df8bc9040dd)
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Ok got it but then...some raccoon wearing guy shows the LED between the sensor and the NEG terminal on the battery! Sheesh!
(https://bmwr65.org/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm70%2Fmrridden%2Ftrigtest.jpg&hash=7fcc1c2b7415b8d95b46d49b3f087df8bc9040dd)
That circuit is the same as mine, it just has the LED in a different place. When the LED is on in my circuit the LED would be off in his circuit, and vice-versa. Makes no difference functionally.
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With that little low voltage LED, you do need the 1K series resistor to limit the current into the hall effect sensor, or your risk damaging it. The 12V LEDs are just a LED with a series resistor already in it. You'll more likely damage the hall effect device before burning out the LED if you don't have a 12V LED/resistor combo and don't have some current limiting resistor in series.
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IT'S ALIVE !
My Hall sender "Bean Can" finally found its way home from Northern Alabama. Rick Jones was kind enough to put up with my weekly Where is it? emails from his impatient customer.
FYI, Motoraad subcontracts the overhaul work and the gentleman that does the work for Rick was called out-of-town for a lengthy work period. Not anything anyone could do about it but... I want to ride my motorpickle.
After a very precise reinstall and static timing... as in, Line up the pencil marks from where I took it off, I chicken-choked that puppy and hit the switch. Having sat dry and still for almost six weeks, it took a moment for the engine to catch. Wind, wind, wind... and I'm thinking, Jeez! It ain't the bean-o can.
Wrong! That puppy fired off and sounds quite crisp. It's colder'n a well diggers belt buckle here but I'm going for a ride. Later, lads.
Monte [smiley=clap.gif]
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Ride on man, and wear long undies...
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Ride on over and help me pull the jugs off this '82! That'll get a nice ride under your belt...
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Glad to hear the '81 is back on the road. It's always nice when the thing you spent mucho dinero on and waited weeks for actually fixes the problem you had!
JM
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Amen, Yikes! [smiley=idea2.gif]
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Very interesting thread but I am not familiar with the electrical components of my bike. The 09 MOA rally will be my first long trip on my recently restored 82 R65 and I need to assemble spare parts for the trip. As a former scout I like to be prepared for the worst. Assuming money wasn't a limitation what electrical parts would you carry on long trip?
I appreciate the input.
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You did specify electrical (although I would imagine you will get lists containing spare tires, etc ;) ). I would feel comfortable with:
Electrical tape and tie-wraps
Alternator rotor
Regulator
Bean-can
Fuses
A few feet of 14 AWG wire
Bulbs
If you are running with your original coil then I would definitely carry a replacement "Dyna" coil. These things seem to wait until the most inopportune time to go south...
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what justin listed and perhaps some brushes for the alternator and either a diode board or a pocket of diodes along with [tools,not parts, sorry] a butane pencil soldering iron, a pocket VOM and the knowledge to use it.
rich
Who really does carry bailing wire and chewing gum.
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[size=12]I carry a spare rotor when I leave my state (of mind? ::)), but it will not do you much good with out a removal tool so you can get the bad one off! You can make your own out of a hardened bolt long enough and cut to length, or get one from someone like Moto Elektrik.
http://www.motoelekt.com/goodstuff.htm His book on charging systems is supposed to be good, too. Especially if this is your first airhead.[/size]
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On my two regular riders I have had rotors expire in the past year or two, one regulator, and zero diode boards although I usually carry one on cross-country trips. I have replaced worn out brushes but they "normally" give a bit of warning (flickering and/or dimly glowing GEN light) and won't leave you stranded unless you are on a multi-thousand mile trip.
I will heartily second Rich's mention of a meter and enthusiastically recommend one of the $2.99 (on almost perpetual sale) Harbor Freight DVMs. At that price I bought several and have one in all of our normal riders/drivers.
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Guy, I really appreciate the advice, just what I was looking for. Now my tasks is to assemble the parts , learn their function and how to install.
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I would just add that some of these parts are expensive - even second hand (diode board, alternator rotor, bean can, etc). So that might colour your judgement.
However, what do I know? I live in the UK and am never that far from a dealer or recovery. Might be a different thing in the good old US of A - when I talk about 10s of miles, you talk about 100s.
So it is less critical for me - even if I went to the continent.
Cheers
Steve H